The Banks Cash Point Scam

Hello there,

Just found this forum. So I guess you too invested in Jardin de los Reyes.

Have you had any news lately?

Hi

I have also bought but have heard nothing recently.I have e-mailed Stuart Lawrence without reply.Does anybody know if the project  is still ongoing and if not are our deposits safe?

Hi,

I am trying to find out if Jardin de los Reyes actually exists? Has work started on this development or if not what has happened to the investors? Also do you have any information on Property Showrooms or know anything about them?

Many thanks

No news yet, but see the following thread. Seems like a poster on their has had a repy from MC Consulting indicating that planning permission will be achieved this year.

Thanks, appreciate your help.

I've invested as well and have been concerned myself as to these delays as when I originally bought I thought it would late 09 that I could sell.  I've been told an update will come out in May/June 09 but first option to sell should be in 2011.  Hopefully this is due to bad timing with the financial crisis and not some stall tactic in a scam...Any insight??

pburgh11,

Did you invest in the 900 sq. meter plots, the first 300 or so sold in 2007, or the subsequent 500 sq. meter plots?

Have you received any official communication? If so, what are we to expect in the May/June update? I underastand that outline planning permmission is yet to be achieved - as I recall it was due in May 2008.

PK

Folks, I am forwarding this message from Andy on another forum which I thought was a very interesting view -

1. Outline planning permission has been "imminent" for over a year. You should have received an email from MC Consulting in the last two weeks giving a very upbeat outlook, but with no definitive answer to this question. Contractually you should receive a full refund of the stage payment you initially made if the outline planning is not forthcoming by the end of the year. If you were one of the clients who invested at the end of 2006 when the project was first launched, you are going to benefit from the difference in the exchange rate. (Your refund will not include any VAT or legal fees you paid at the time)

2. Despite initial (2006) claims that outline planning permission would increase the value of the land by 30-50% (I don´t remember what was quoted at the time), because of subsequent events in the Spanish property market, outline planning permission will make no significant increase (if any) in the value of the land. MC Consulting and IPIN are still marketing the project (albeit under a different name) and these should be the guys who you approach to ask for an objective value.

3. Full planning permission will be applied for once the outline planning permission has been granted, In your contract you should have a clause refunding any monies paid towards the purchase of the land if this is not forthcoming by December 31st 2011. In 2½ years time, the property market in Spain may have recovered enough that your investment has appreciated in value, but to put a figure on it now is meaningless.

4. Selling on at this stage is difficult. Even if outline planning is granted and you were willing to recover only the €uros that you put in, you will be looking for a purchaser willing to pay 75% of the purchase price now for something that might produce a profit in 2-3 years time. With so many other international opportunities available where you only need to put down (say) 20% deposit with nothing more to pay for 2 years, would this be an investment that you would be prepared to make? MC Consulting did say (at the time) that they would have a resale program favouring those clients who invested early. Again, speak with the agent who sold you the plot and see if this is still the case.

I believe that when people got involved in this project, it was marketed as a minimum 7 year hold. Ignoring all the previous charades and mud-slinging in this thread, it could still turn out to be a worthwhile investment, and I am sure that some people who invested in Bulgaria, Cape Verde, certain places in Morocco and "too good to be true" schemes like Punta Perla, would gladly swap places with you right now.

I hope that this post is seen as helpful. I am not involved in selling the project - just know enough about it. I wish you well. Andy.

Folks, this is the latest from developers. I too have invested and am still hopeful that the project will be very successful. 

SteveB,

thanks for the update, I recieved that as well.  Have you or anyone on this thread visited the site by any chance? 

Hi all.

Just discovered this chat room

I also am an investor in this development.  I rang my agent this afternoon and he said that he had been invited to a meeting of the developer's planning staff with "the government officials" next Thursday.  He seemed to think that this was the day that outline would be granted but was vague to say the least when pressed on specifics.  I asked for assurances that if the outline planning permission was not in place by the 19th Dec (as per my contract) I would recieve a full refund with bank interest.  He said he would be in a better position to tell me after this meeting... 

I spoke with Eduardo, the head guy on this a few months ago and he was would not give me a straight answer when asked the same question above only stating that they would definitely have outline planning in good time.  I hope this is not another run around as the positive spin in anything recieved in nausceous.  I don't care what their architect has done before!  It is clear as mud to actually what is going on. 

If anyone knows please advise.

Ben

Hi

I am also an investor and have heard very little for the past couple of months.Am I correct in thinking that our deposits are returnable if outline planning permission is not recieved by the end of December?

I spoke to someone from Jardin de los Reyes a couple of months ago who said they were deliberately being low key and secretive to avoid other people submitting rival planning applications.

Any updates /news would be much appreciated

Hi All,

I'm one of the early investors in the project and my contract states Outline Planning by 31st December 2009. 

I received today (23rd December) a document dated the 14th December 2009 and a letter from Mike effectively saying they have made it to the next round. They certainly played it close, but happy to hear that the project is progressing. I have forwarded it to my solicitor to ensure that it does in fact provide the "Outline Planning" permission as stated in the contract.

Unless I misread something, I also believe they have changed the name of the development (which is a shame as I quite liked "Jardin de los Reyes")......

Happy Holidays... Juan (John).

Hi I am also an investor and would like know whether it is still a safe option to send an additional 15000 euro for the 2nd payment of 25%.. Has anybody visited the site. Does anybody know of a good solicitor that is involved with this investment.

many regards

Martin

Hi LongtallMartin,

Hi John,

I too am an investor in JDLR and also went through IPIN. It's nice to find other investors and a forum, any others would be good. It's been a nervy wait and a relief to have the outline planning at last. With the current market conditions I think it may have been good that this is a development by Martin Clews and thanks to IPIN for their due diligence.

I paid my second installment last year to take advantage of the offer of the back dated lower exchange rate.

Going forward, I'm awaiting the details of the forthcoming seminars as it was always my intention to flip the land with outline planning as provided in the initial projections and this remains my desire.

If you, or anyone else in this community hears anything further of interest, please let me know.

Thanks and regards, Marc

Hi Mark,

We too are investors and as we were worried about paying any more money  until we were certain the project was viable went to visit the site in January.We were shown around by Andrew Segal who reassuringly has invested his own money in the project.

Although there is little to see at the site apart from the vineyard he showed us extensive plans graphs and projections about infrastructure etc and was very enthusiastic.We were reassured and are in the process of paying our second installment.

My main worry is we too plan to "flip" the land and if everybody does the same it would affect the viability of the project.

Any thoughts?

hello major,

I visited the site back in spring 2007 when I first invested and it was, as now, a piece of rustic/farm land but understandable even now at pre definative planning consent. My uneducated knowledge of the planning system in Spain is that it is similar to that in the UK in that getting outline planning is the major hurdle with definative planning merely being the final council agreed plan blue print and if that is the case then at least we've got outline.

When you were there in Jan, did you notice any works to the train line? This, up dated station and hi speed connection, is apparently the first change albeit a government thing and with no direct involvement in the development. This will help going forward and with potential uplift. 

I too have been dealing with Andrew Segal. I'm concerned about the flip position like you thinking surely most investors went in on this basis, certainly if invested through IPIN what with their marketing strategy based this way.  Andrew won't confirm directly that the majority are looking to flip, saying roughly half but that he was hoping that many would be swayed to stay on board following the upcoming presentation/seminar. Interestingly, he said that they no longer intend to do the propsed 1 in 10 sales system; if you recall, it was initailly proposed that part of M&C's dedicated resale programme would give priority to investors in the same order of when the investment was made at a ratio of 1 investor plot to 10 non-investor held plot. He said that with the additional uplift again anticipated with definative planning M&C will hold on to their witheld plots til then to max their profit. At least therefore ours should be flipped only in direct order. I share you concerns though regarding over stock of flip investors with little market demand. Andrew had previously spoken of investor groups considering baulk plot purchases and if these included ours then fine, reduced profit is better than loss. 

I am waiting in anticipation to see their next intended strategy but feel they will make a big play on investors retaining the plots to max profits following definitive planning. I did ask Andrew what he thought the likely value of the plots would be now, given the decline in the market. If you recall, we were advised the minimum value with outline planning would be £150,000 back in 2007; given the change in Euro to sterling to near parity since and the changed market conditions, he advised around £90-100,000, obviously he stressed this was merely a guessimate and it could well be more or........less. Of course this still brings up the question of demand or probable lack of it.  

Let me have your thoughts and bring on these proposed seminars/presentations.

Good to be able to chat to someone else involved and hope I haven't waffled and duplicated too much.

Regards, Marcus

Hi Marcus

Yes there was some tracks being laid and Andrew informed us the high speed link was definately going ahead and would be completed in the near future.He also said there was  link to Alicante airport.

The main selling point seems to be the unique nature of the development with green environmental type industries also creating a housing demmand.HE told us there was going to be a boat storage /building dry dock in the disused quarry again made viable by the excellant infrastructure links.

The key to Los pandos as i think they have renamed it is the diversity as  it does not depend solely on traditional tourism.We have 2 other properties in Spain whose value has been severely affected by the downturn so we are defiately looking to flip.we can only hope for the best and an upturn over the next two years!

Majormolar