A sad state of affairs

Hi everyone,

First off I like to say a big thank you to Justin and the gang. I've used the information from this site during the past year and found it to be informative and of tremendous help in making our decision to purchase in Spain.

Now down to the nitty-gritty as to why I myself am posting here, well ... read on If you like things that are a little bit on the 'Purchase from Hell' side of town or click your back browser quick if you don't.

This is both a tale of woe and a cry for help!

Firstly, we wanted to purchase in Spain for some considerable time and during the first visit to a friends apartment in Puerto de La Duquesa we were hitched on purchasing in the Duquesa area. So, we hastened around the various estate agents and took a good look at to what was on offer and what sort of budget we would require and most important of all ... could we actually afford our dream. Upon our return and many weeks later, after the initial euphoria died down, we realised ... yes!!

So, to cut a long story short (way to late).after many months of searching and looking at as many properties as possible (most important to do so) we have purchased a beautiful apartment in Princesa Kristina, Duquesa, Manilva ... or have we!?!

The completion date was on the 11th August 2006. We completed on that date, even though there were insufficient funds to pay our Mortgage Advisor and some other 'minor' discrepancies, a short fall of some €2300 (give or take) thanks to our Lawyers. Should have listened to our Mortgage Advisor and sent what he suggested (sorry buddy). We are now having to find the extra funds to pay the Mortgage Advisor, some €1749 for his brilliant help and have promised to do so within the next fortnight.

However, a twist in the tale: It now transpires that we didn't have a shortfall of €2300, we had in fact sufficient funds to pay our Mortgage Advisor. So what happened I hear you cry (in shear desperation - maybe not). We ended up paying some of the Vendors Hestor bill and the Hestor retained 5% of the total bill until the registration of the mortgage and the registration of the clearance of the previous mortgage have finished, the later according to our Lawyers is common practice.

Some five months done the line and:

1) We have found the extra monies to pay our Mortgage Advisor and are still trying to get back the monies owed to us by our Lawyer.

2) I don’t know if the registration of the mortgage and the registration of the clearance of the previous mortgage have finished.

3) I need to know if an unpaid demand for the Vendors PlusValia registered against our property, has actually been removed from the property.

4) I have still not received the very final and full statement of account.

5) I still don't even have a copy of the Copia Simplé (an abridged version of the full Escritura) whilst we wait for a copy of the full Escritura.

6) Nothing on our ‘snag’ list has been done, even though our Lawyer has a copy of the list and have stated they will ‘look into it’.

Every time I contact our Lawyers, we get a new reason as to why none of this has happened. It's due mainly to the fact that the person dealing with our file left the company two months after completion and when I telephoned the Lawyers last Friday, nobody seemed to know who was dealing with our case and they would telephone us straight back. Put simply in Spanish - Nada.

The moral of this story:

Find good, reputable Estate Agents (which we did, but didn’t use!?!), a Spanish Lawyer (which we didn’t – it would seem) and above all a Spanish (British) Mortgage Advisor (which we most certainly did).

Make sure you get all three.

PS. If there is anyone out there that may be able to help with any/all of this, then I would be delighted for you to post a reply or indeed send me a private message.

Welcome to the forum, TechNoApe. I have only just quickly read your post, and I'm sure you will get other, probably better qualfied responses, but just thought I may be able to offer a couple of things.

I don't know if you are in Spain, but if you are, or when you next are, if you want a Copia Simple, just go to the Notary where you signed on completion and ask for it. ID will be required, but otherwise there's no difficulty; in fact, usually you can get it before leaving the Notary on the day you sign. The full escritura is normally available about 6-8 weeks later. No doubt your lawyer and/or agent has told you this is complicated and costly. Bulls**t!

As for the plus valia, I am guessing you have bought first hand. Check your contract carefully; normally in Spain this tax is payable by the vendor, but developers often sneak it into the contract that the buyer will pay it. It shouldn't be too much, since it is a tax on the increase in the value of the land only since when the developer bought it, and then only on your part of it. Anyway, a quick visit to the relevant office at your local town hall (ayuntamiento) armed with your newly acquired copia simple (and ID, always ID!) will establish whether or not it's been paid.

As a life long member of the Cynical Party, I wouldn't expect your lawyer to help much with the snagging. Better to get over to the developer's office yourself and start shouting and screaming. As you can see, I'm a firm believer in the mantra "if you want a job done, do it yourself". (Much cheaper than using a lawyer/gestor/agent etc.)

Sorry, I know nothing about mortgage registration etc, but I know a man who does. Smiley? Can you help this comrade out?

Thanks for your quick response Roberto, it's much appreciated.

The Lawyer had full power of attourney and we therfore did not attend the completion, however your advice is much appreciated and next time I'm over in Spain, if I haven't got what I need then I'll do just as you said.

With regards to the Plus Valia, we are the Second Owner as we purchased a re-sale.

As for snagging, hmm! It's exactly what I was thinking of doing next but thought I was thinking with my Cahones. Obviously either I wasn't or I was and you and I think the same way!?!

I suppose when it's five months after you start something and you feel you've left your best friend down (our Mortgage Adviser). Next time I'm out in Spain I'll also have to take him out for a drink, if he's still speaking to me.

Anyway, thanks one again mi amigo, mucho gracias.

Thanks for your quick response Smiley,

We purchased from an off plan invester who had done nothing with the property.

It was purchased through an Estate Agent which turned out to be rubbish, however the young lady we were dealing with and who saw the deal through initially was brilliant, but just like our Lawyer, she left before the end.

We have got keys to the apartment, and have furnished it. It's just we have nothing to prove we own it and money has gone astray!

Still not entirely sure if you are the first registered owner, i.e. did the person you bought from actually complete and register the property in his name, or just cede his "off-plan" contract to you? If the property was already registered and you are in fact the second owner, I shouldn't worry about the plus valia, as this is definitely for the vendor to pay, not you. But assuming the first owner had the property less than a year, it will probably be zero anyway.

Your lawyer should have collected the copia simple immediately after signing for you, so ask the plonker to fax it to you ASAP; it costs NOTHING to obtain. At least then you'll have something with your name on to make you feel better.

Cheers Roberto,

I keep asking the Lawyer to do this, but I just get fobed of with some BS about 'as the person who was deling with your case has now left the company I'm not sure who is, left me find who is and someone will call you back this afternoon'  - then nada.

May I ask - "Are there any Lawyers in the house?"

Re Roberto's response "As for the plus valia, I am guessing you have bought first hand. Check your contract carefully; normally in Spain this tax is payable by the vendor, but developers often sneak it into the contract that the buyer will pay it. It shouldn't be too much, since it is a tax on the increase in the value of the land only since when the developer bought it, and then only on your part of it. "

Sept 2003. We bought an off-plan property (house) on a 180 sq m plot (a titchy plot) & our SPANISH contract, which obviously was the one we signed, had on it that we agreed to pay builders costs !!

As we only understood the ENGLISH copy, we were unaware of this & had (VERY STUPIDLY) allowed our agent's so called "legal team" (Millennium Worldwide was our agent on the Costa Blanca) to do the conveyancing. When the financial breakdown arrived March 2005 ready for completion April 2005 it had "+ plus valia" written on it ! We said it wasn't OUR liability, it was THE DEVELOPERS but they were very quick, suddenly, to translate the Spanish contract CORRECTLY & it was pointed out to us WE'D signed to say WE'D cough up !

Millennium said it would only be about 25€. After a helluva lot of grief from my husband, Chris, & me  (well me really, as Chris knew it was stressing me out so much I was experiencing panic attacks & HE said to just let's pay it if it's ONLY 25 € & I objected STRONGLY to being fleeced !) the agent FINALLY agreed to pay. It turned out to be 1,200 € at the notary on completion PLUS a FURTHER 144 € 18 months later after we'd learnt WHY our escritura hadn't been released by the notary (this outstanding 144 € hadn't been paid by Millennium & they'd not asked notary for reason why escritura hadn't been released despite all our emails over the 18 months.) Then the escritura STILL wasn't released by the notary, Millennium were AGAIN sitting around doing Lord knows what so I took it on myself to post a message on a legal board on another site asking for the notaries email address & I mailed the notary direct. Two weeks later we heard the notary had the escritura, which WAS available but with 99 c outstanding Plus Valia to pay. We told Millennium & after some weeks they went to the notary for it. We now have it.

Point I'm making is the Plus Valia in our case would've cost US 1200€ + 144€ + 0.99€ = 1344.99 € which is a FAR CRY from Millennium's estimation of 25€ !!! 

Sorry, Janice, I didn't mean to re-open old wounds, but your case does confirm what I said, namely that the contract often lumps the buyer with the plus valia, when the developer should pay it.

Another point which I don't think has been raised anywhere else on this site; a couple of years (maybe) after completing on a new property, your local town hall will finally get round to billing you for the rates (IBI), back-dated to when you took over the property. Strictly speaking, whoever owns the property on Jan 1st is liable for the rates for that calendar year, so the developer should pay your first year's rates. Not a lot of people know this, since the rates bills are not usually issued until at least June. If you signed for your property in, for example, January or February, like most people you will probably think it's fair enough to pay for that year's rates. If, however, you signed in December, you will no doubt be a bit peeved to find you have to pay rates for that whole year. You don't have to, it's the developer's bill, whatever month you signed. One word of caution, however. If you decide to stick to your rights and refuse to pay a bill which legally is not your responsibility, and the developer also refuses to pay it, you may have problems later on if you want to sell. Proof that the most recent rates bill has been paid is no longer sufficient, you need a certificate from the town hall stating there are no outstanding debts. If the very first year's rates bill was never paid, it will have to be paid, plus interest and/or fines, before you can get the certificate now required by the notary on the day of sale. For the sake of peace of mind and to save any hassle later on, I paid our first years rates (after much argument with the developer which was getting me nowhere). My neighbour decided to dig her heels in on principle. We shall have to wait to see who sells first to find out who got it right!

Hello,

In most of the cases where the developer sneaked a clause saying so, the buyer´s lawyer ussually has the reason no matter which contract you have signed.... the tactic was.... put it on the contract.... if the client "swallowed" okey.... but the lawyer should fight for it and I am not lawyer but in any opportunity I witnessed the exchange of arguments , allways was agreed that the developer would pay.

Of course a good lawyer would never let you sign a contract stipulating that plusvalia is for you to pay...... unless you have been properly informed and agreed to it due to your personal circumstances before signing the contract.

Cheers,

Thanks guys 'n gals,

I think I'm gonna go down to the Manilva town hall in Sabinillas with a shotgun the next time I'm in Spain. Thanks to you guys I've got a load more ammo! Gun Ho!, Gun Ho! (only joking)

Jeans, Roberto and Juan - With regards to the plus Valia tax:

I received in my post box amongst other mail addressed to me (I know!, I know!), which is in my local 'finca' post room, a letter addressed to the previous owner of our apartment shortly after taking 'possession' of our apartment. As it was Green, I opened it. It appeared to be a demand for the unpaid Plus Valia Tax in the previous owners name, however it was dated AFTER the completion date!?!

I emailed and faxed a copy of this to my Lawyer and they agreed it was as stated and said they would sort it out with the Vendors (sellers) Lawyers. My concerns are that if it has not been paid, has it been transferred to us either during completion, which we never agreed to do so or has the bill been registered against the property, which is now in our names (or at least should be).

Muchos gracias mi camarada

Roberto said  "Sorry, Janice, I didn't mean to re-open old wounds, but your case does confirm what I said, namely that the contract often lumps the buyer with the plus valia, when the developer should pay it."

The Plus Valia WAS NEVER MENTIONED ON OUR ENGLISH TRANSLATION. It WASN'T that we just didn't SEE it because we went through the English "supposed copy"  in great detail. The builder had conveniently removed that part of the escritura. We only managed to get the agent to cough up because they had gone on initially so much about how great their legal team were & how we were safe in their hands etc etc (need I go on ?) We insisted that, HAD someone from their legal team checked the contract, it should've been noticed & dealt with.

In actual fact we even saw that the contract indicated that we were buying it for a person we'd never heard of ! Think that was a genuine, albeit, STUPID mistake as they just obviously change the names & details on each contract they print off the pc. We told the developer & he changed it.

Anyway, we are way down the line now & enjoying our home there on the Costa Blanca. Next stop .. water meters & all that goes on with THAT ! (JUST got our certificate of habitation after almost two years !)