27 Oct 2012 8:52 AM:

We tried everything to keep our house. We got loans and re negotiated our mortgage despite both our paros running out. Then my eldest had a host of medical issues that required we pay for very expensive equipment like back braces and insoles. It meant that we were destitute and we just couldn't pay the mortgage. We'd been honest with the bank. When the paro ran out we went to the bank and told them. They told us to move in with friends and rent o ou our appeasement, eventhough it wouldn't even come close to covering the tree negotiated mortgage. They refused the dacion. Eventually we started missing payments and would receive endless nasty calls demanding payment. Eventually we moved back to the UK and looked for work. The bank said it would take our assets in the UK. We told them, they were welcome to try as we had nothing. We were in the UK seven months before they finally agreed and that was after the government took over. It took ages as the valuation of the property wasn't enough to cover the re negotiated mortgage we were forced into several years before which turned out to be more expensive than our original one. We had to basically tell the bank to go eff themselves. We weren't able to pay the mortgage without starving ourselves, we had no other assets and as we were now living in the UK, they were more than welcome to take us to court. We wouldn't show up. After spending 3 years being honest and begging the bank for help as we were both out of work and receiving nothing we eventually gave up. And only when CAM were taken over and a new branch manager was involved did they start negotiating the dacion. We still had to, pay plusvalia which was exorbident, but it was much less per month than the mortgage we had.

Persistence is key with the banks and sticking to your guns.

Thread: Dacion en Pago

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29 Sep 2012 10:25 AM:

Having just moved back to the UK, I'd have to say that financially it is easier to live in the UK if you have kids. It cost me 600€ per year to send my kids to public school, that was just for books. By buying second hand uniform for school here, it cost me just 20£. I had to pay over 1000€ for one of my kids medical care which was not covered by seguridad social (like glasses) here I pay nothing. I had to pay 50€ every couple of weeks for my Crohns meds. Here, I pay less than 8£' We were paying nearly 200€ per month to Iberdrola, and we were still paying for gas for the heaters. Here we pay about 100£ for gas and electric. If we can't pay, in the UK they won't just cut you off. Iberdrola, well we all know what happens there. Children's clothing, my word, it is horrendously expensive in Spain in comparison to the UK. And finally, the thing that makes a huge difference to those of us working with children, wages. My husband gets paid double what he earned in Spain. The main reason things seem expensive in the UK is the fact that people get paid more, but in Spain, due to the crisis, were reduced to just 600€ per month. Our rent alone was 600, so you can see how hard life was. The reason the Indignatos are di indignant is that for a country where over a quarter of the population are living on around 400€ a month, things ARE really expensive. Not to mention that if you get into financial trouble which is common, people like Ibi just take your money in embargos. Often leaving you with an empty bank account and hungry mouths to feed.

We always said, if we were living off UK pensions in Spain and no kids, Spain would seem like a paradise.

Thread: Why go back to the Uk? Is Spain not cheap enough?

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13 Aug 2012 11:58 AM:

Looking through these posts, I can see that a lot of the really positive posts come from people who are retired and therefore not beholden to the main issues in Spain right now. I moved to Spain 12 years ago when I was just 20 with my 1 year old daughter in tow. I moved to be closer to my elderly parents. I despise the sun and the heat, so it certainly wasn't that which enticed me to Spain. Newly single, I had no one myself, no home to live in. Coming from an inner London council estate where drug paraphernalia and gun crimes were rife, even the "grimy" slums of Torrevieja seemed like paradise. 

Back then, jobs were a penny a dozen. I could afford my rent and my food and my electric. I enrolled my kid in the local school, I learnt Spanish, lived in a predominately Spanish neighbourhood, only watched Spanish TV. Essentially I integrated, much more than most retired expats believe they are. I met my (now) husband while going out with Spanish friends (although he's actually Finnish but had lived in Spain all his life). I got married in the local Ayuntamiento. My ceremony was in Spanish. I ended up becoming a translator in hospitals, the Hacienda, the Notary for other ex pats who couldn't speak the language. I gave birth to another child in Spain (although apparently I forget how to speak Spanish in labour). So integration was anything but a problem. 

But raising kids in Spain, trying to work when there is just no work... worrying about where and how you will pay for your next meal... that is what truly put the nail in the coffin of our life in Spain. 

It's all well and good being retired. Your pension in the UK funds your life, and you get more Euros for your Pound, you never need to worry about loosing your job and money... but when your finances are dependent on of 2 years Paro, or trying to secure a job in a place where unemployment is one of the highest in the industrial world... it's terrifying. 8€ for Menu Del Dia, WOW!! But if you only have 8€ to feed a family of 4 for a week, that's kinda expensive. Iberdrola don't care if you have a 4 month old baby living in your home in the depths of winter. If you can't pay your 200€ electricity bill, they cut you off. Our council tax was only 250€ a year, sure.. but when you don't have that money in October because you've just spent 300€ funding school books, and equipment for an ailing school system, SUMA don't care if they embargo your accounts so you can't even get a couple of Euros to buy food. 

Retired people don't seem to understand that there is almost no financial help for families in Spain. There is no child benefit, child tax credit, working tax credit, housing benefit. Your families are expected to help you out financially and be honest, could your small UK pension stretch to supporting another household with 2 kids, as well as yours? My parents opted out on helping us as they felt they shouldn't have to financially support me once I was married. My husband's parents were in dire-straits because they were also still working and paying a mortgage, and the crisis had crippled them to. So there was just Paro, which eventually stopped.

I have never experienced true poverty until I lived in Spain. Friends in the UK who lived off benefits, or even those who worked poorly paid jobs were millionaires compared to us. And yes, there were times we had to resort to going through the bins for things we needed, clothes for the kids. When our washing machine and water heater broke down at the same time, I spent 8 weeks washing laundry in the bath with a kettle boiling. I took my kids to the local swimming pool for a shower every other day so they were at least clean. 

My husband spoke 5 languages fluently, but in 2 years, despite a desperate search, not one job was offered. When his paro ran out we were left with just 600€ per month of my paro for 4 people, then that too stopped. Many of our friends were in similar positions, with their parent's merger Spanish pensions supporting them. Even more friends (Spanish friends) were moving away from Spain to find work.

So when the opportunity presented itself, we moved to the UK. Things are more expensive here. Car tax, and council tax namely. But I just spent 60 pounds of school uniform for one of my children, where ordinarily I had to pay near 300€ per child. My eldest finally got the dental treatment she needed... FOR FREE! whereas we were quoted 5000€ in Spain. She desperately needed glasses, 250€ in Spain... Free in the UK. Her scoliosis back brace, 650€ in Spain, Free in the UK. You'll never know how bad you feel as a parent till you can't afford basic, simple healthcare for your child. My medication cost 24€ per three tablet packet... now it costs me just 7pounds for several, and my husband found a job in just 3 weeks. Even things most retired expats wouldn't notice, 25€ for a meal from mcDonalds for 4, 18pounds in the UK, but when you get twice as much money per month in the UK, that’s a huge difference.

In terms of bills, things are cheaper here and kids clothes are fantastically cheap. Most of all, I don't lie awake at night terrified about how I will feed my kids the next day.

We loved our life in Spain. Our friends, our family. But life for the young working population isn't sustainable, the despair and anger is tangible, engulfing. Most retired expats would have no experience or knowledge of this, making Spain seem like paradise. If we'd been retired, we would never have left because for all intents and purposes, we were Spanish. We were even applying for Spanish nationality at the time. But even with the horrible wet summer, the truth of it is, our life is better in the UK, no matter how much that pains others to hear. 

 

 

Thread: BE HONEST...Would you stay in Spain if it wasn't for the weather?

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