11 Mar 2014 1:54 AM:

It is utterly daft to suggest, as one contributor to this site (who had best remain nameless) has that the €30,000 swindle was deliberately not reported in order to save tax!!! The whole idea verges on lunacy ! The tax saved by under-declaring the €30,000 stolen would be €2400 or so I believe (assuming Property Tax at 8%). Would anybody, except a policeman, lose €30,000 in order to save €2400 ? I'd better not say any more or vent my fury any further or I might be barred from Eye on Spain. I have tried to reply to this lunacy several times but always break the rules!  

Thread: PROPERTY TAX BILL APPEAL ANY USE!?

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07 Mar 2014 12:37 AM:

To: Mariedav

I am very pleased that you love Spain. I am 67 and have loved Spain since I was 15 - and it has nothing to do with the climate which, away from the coast, is bloody awful ! But I am surprised to hear that you think Spain is cheap ! 

Spain, sadly, is a member if the European Union of Socialist Republics and one of the main objectives of the EUSSR is to make sure that all Member States are as expensive as Germany ! It has to do this because it is an incredibly expensive organisation, a totally, unbelievably expensive organisation and it just can never, ever be cheap ! Nasty.perhaps, but never cheap ! It gets more expensive by the day. The European Union is the most expensive Monolith in the history of Mankind - and probalby the most useless !

I don't smoke but most Spaniards do (official figures say that 30% of Spaniards smoke; I would put the figure at 80%!) Five years or so ago, Spain's most popular brand of tobacco, Ducados, introduced Ducados Rubios in to the market, "Rubio" meaning "blonde" as opposed to "black tobacco." The price was €1.45. Brussels was apoplectic and forbade the Spanish Government to allow cigarettes to be sold at that price !

The Spanish Government, of course, was happy to comply ! Lots more tax! Ducados Rubios now cost 4.50. Still very cheap by British, French or German standards. But, in percentage terms. the increase has been absolutely massive! Around 250% - in five years ! Something else Brussels doesnt like - apart from Life itself- is the price of booze ! Well, much to the disgust of Rumpy Pumpy and his friends, wine is still cheap in Spain, generally cheaper than beer - or even water!  But not as cheap as it was ! Five years ago, a litre of the cheapest table wine cost 0.49 Now it costs 0.98. Still too cheap for the likes of Brussels but, in percentage terms, an absolutely massive increase ! 

In my opinion, although it makes it very easy for me to live in Spain, the European Union is one of the daftest ideas in the history of Mankind, if not the daftest idea in the whole history of Mankind (well, Nick Clegg likes it so it has to be a crazy idea !)  It seems to me that the European Union intends to make Europe Third World in order to pay Unemployment Benefit to the countless millions who have no jobs thanks to EU policies. 

Maria, let-s have our world back and our lives back.  .     

Thread: PROPERTY TAX BILL APPEAL ANY USE!?

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01 Mar 2014 10:12 PM:

Having lived in Spain for ten years, I have always felt that Spanish drivers (especially men) are the worst in the world but they tell me Egypt is worse and so is Zimbabwe ! But I don't know either country. The problem is the "bullfighter" mentality and taking risks for the hell of it ! As far as I can see, Spanish drivers neither look nor think. Nor do they stop very often. A favourite trick, when approaching a road junction or side turning, is to look and see if anything is coming (and even that is optional !) and if it is, pull out ! The rule on a roundabout is "never, ever give way to traffic on the roundabout but see if you can get by without hitting it!"As is well known, Spaniards must overtake at all costs; their macho pride depends on it. If it is on a bend or there is a car coming in the other direction, so much the better. Much more fun ! And if you call a Spanish driver an idiot (as most are) he will stop his car and remonstrate with you. Women worse than men? Can't say I have noticed much difference really ! The worst thing that ever happened to Spain was Fernando Alonso winning the World Championship - twice ! That has convinced them that they are the best drivers in the world, not the worst !     

Thread: Women drive worse than men says Spanish judge!

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01 Mar 2014 9:52 PM:

I would agree with mariedev that much of the Spanish property market "stinks !"Especially the "legal" aspects (so-called! Solicitors are often "in it" up to their eyeballs.) However, I have lived here for ten years and have a slightly different "twist" on the scandal. My house (which is nowhere near the coast) was valued correctly in the "Escritura" in that the price entered was the price that the seller received. So that was all in order ! Tax was paid correctly and so on.

The only problem was that this price was not the price that I paid !! As was pointed out to me by the furious seller who invited me for a drink as we left the notary. "The price you have paid is far, far more than the price I received." Too right! I paid no less than €30,000 more than he received. The solicitor (who was in cahoots with the agents) told me that this was "perfectly normal" and a means of "reducing tax" (as some correspondents have pointed out). Except that, in this case, it did not reduce tax but went straight into the estate agent's pocket (with, no doubt, a cut to the bent solicitor).  Needless to say, the agents were British and from the Costa del Sol; how they strayed up here to Granada, heaven only knows but, during the boom, they were all over the place. Anyway, the absolutely furious seller said "Your countrymen are all crooks ! They are mafiosi." Difficult to disagree, although I should have been the one to be furious since I was the one who had paid the money. 

I became aware that this was absolutely standard practice with British agents.It came about because buyer and seller never met and were ruthlessly kept apart by the agents. Often this was because English buyers do not speak Spanish but I do so that wasn't the reason.  No, as I was to discover when it was too late, we were kept apart in order that I should not know what price the house was actually being sold for !

The system was that the agent would ask the buyer how much he wanted for his house and, away from the coast, property prices were usually much lower than in the U.K. So the agent would work out how much he reckoned a British buyer would be prepared to pay and since even that figure would still be below U.K. prices, so everyone was happy so long as they were all kept in the dark. 

These people are or were crooks, pure and simple. No two ways about it. The difference between what the seller was asking for and what the buyer paid went straight into the Estate Agent's pocket, with a cut to the solicitor (who was a necessary part of the scam). No wonder they "got rich quick!" 

I have no idea whether this practice still continues; I am sure it does, especially if the British are involved. They flocked over here to "get rich quick" and fleece their fellow countrymen. I have met quite a few in my time and they all played the same game. Of course, since the bubble burst, many have gone bust, thank the Lord and the number of British agents has reduced substantially; I haven't seen any round here for some time now ! Just as well since I mighty be in prison for murder !! I should perhaps add that we are not talking about huge sums here: I paid €150,000 for a property worth €120,000. You can see that you do not need to sell very many houses to make a very nice living indeed. 

So, yes, it "stinks" and there are many other pitfalls for the unwary. My advice to anyone thinking of moving to Spain is "don't!"  If you are determined to do so, stick to Spanish agents and try and meet the seller. Avoid the British like the plague. Also, be aware that most properties "in the country" are illegal and can be knocked down without compensation. I can absolutely guarantee that this story is true and that this is how British agents used to operate and, very probably, still do.     

Thread: PROPERTY TAX BILL APPEAL ANY USE!?

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01 Mar 2014 9:52 PM:

I would agree with mariedev that much of the Spanish property market "stinks !"Especially the "legal" aspects (so-called! Solicitors are often "in it" up to their eyeballs.) However, I have lived here for ten years and have a slightly different "twist" on the scandal. My house (which is nowhere near the coast) was valued correctly in the "Escritura" in that the price entered was the price that the seller received. So that was all in order ! Tax was paid correctly and so on.

The only problem was that this price was not the price that I paid !! As was pointed out to me by the furious seller who invited me for a drink as we left the notary. "The price you have paid is far, far more than the price I received." Too right! I paid no less than €30,000 more than he received. The solicitor (who was in cahoots with the agents) told me that this was "perfectly normal" and a means of "reducing tax" (as some correspondents have pointed out). Except that, in this case, it did not reduce tax but went straight into the estate agent's pocket (with, no doubt, a cut to the bent solicitor).  Needless to say, the agents were British and from the Costa del Sol; how they strayed up here to Granada, heaven only knows but, during the boom, they were all over the place. Anyway, the absolutely furious seller said "Your countrymen are all crooks ! They are mafiosi." Difficult to disagree, although I should have been the one to be furious since I was the one who had paid the money. 

I became aware that this was absolutely standard practice with British agents.It came about because buyer and seller never met and were ruthlessly kept apart by the agents. Often this was because English buyers do not speak Spanish but I do so that wasn't the reason.  No, as I was to discover when it was too late, we were kept apart in order that I should not know what price the house was actually being sold for !

The system was that the agent would ask the buyer how much he wanted for his house and, away from the coast, property prices were usually much lower than in the U.K. So the agent would work out how much he reckoned a British buyer would be prepared to pay and since even that figure would still be below U.K. prices, so everyone was happy so long as they were all kept in the dark. 

These people are or were crooks, pure and simple. No two ways about it. The difference between what the seller was asking for and what the buyer paid went straight into the Estate Agent's pocket, with a cut to the solicitor (who was a necessary part of the scam). No wonder they "got rich quick!" 

I have no idea whether this practice still continues; I am sure it does, especially if the British are involved. They flocked over here to "get rich quick" and fleece their fellow countrymen. I have met quite a few in my time and they all played the same game. Of course, since the bubble burst, many have gone bust, thank the Lord and the number of British agents has reduced substantially; I haven't seen any round here for some time now ! Just as well since I mighty be in prison for murder !! I should perhaps add that we are not talking about huge sums here: I paid €150,000 for a property worth €120,000. You can see that you do not need to sell very many houses to make a very nice living indeed. 

So, yes, it "stinks" and there are many other pitfalls for the unwary. My advice to anyone thinking of moving to Spain is "don't!"  If you are determined to do so, stick to Spanish agents and try and meet the seller. Avoid the British like the plague. Also, be aware that most properties "in the country" are illegal and can be knocked down without compensation. I can absolutely guarantee that this story is true and that this is how British agents used to operate and, very probably, still do.     

Thread: PROPERTY TAX BILL APPEAL ANY USE!?

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