Advise on property purchase in duquesa

hi guys,

Maybe you could also post this on www.manilvalife.com forum - which is much more localised to this area.  You may get more of a response.

Also, it depends on what basis you are buying.  If you are not experienced in buying property in Spain, then you should have a good lawyer advising you.  There are obviously taxes involved, there will be annual community charges, IBI taxes, non-resident taxes (if applicable), etc., but one would assume that you have already done your homework on this.  So sorry if I'm just repeating stuff you already know.

The least you should know is that you should add on another 11pc at least to cover purchase costs.  But, to make such a big investment, one would like to think that you wouldn't rely on a forum post to advise you on all the legalities involved.  Contact a lawyer if you haven't done so already!

Hi Superd

Price seems about right for the area, although some may tell you different.

If you're buying as an investment, I think it'll be a long time before you get any return.

Other points to consider: -

1 Get yourself a good  independant lawyer

2 You'll also pay on average another 10-11% on top of the purchase price in taxes etc, in reality allow 15%

3 Los Hidalgos is an older development, and as it changes hands you could be liable for rewiring of the apartment before you can sign to a contract with an electric company, as new EU laws are being instigated.

I know these thins as I bought in sabi (down the road) last october.

Hope this helps

Phil

PS dont jump at anything - do your homework first

Sorry, but one main point is - and I don't know if it's applicable or not, but just in case - if you are buying and relying on renting it out  - don't!  It won't happen - if you need to rent it out to cover any mortgage or other expenses, dont! 

Hi jan.. can you elaborate on  that point please- is it just a very quiet area of spain- rental wise?

As i would have been hoping for some rental yields, if even just over peek season..?

cheers :)

Hi superd

No, it's not just a very quiet area of Spain.  It's just, as all over the coasts, a very over developed area of Spain!!  There are hundreds of empty apartments here ALL year round!!  There aren't the usual nightclubs, etc., associated with tourist resorts that are endemic in other coastal areas of Spain (thankfully!!).   I would say that Sabinillas to Alcaidesa is wonderful area.  Duquesa port has become a very touristy place, which we choose not to frequent too often - and is definitely more than a one minute walk from Los Hidalgos!!  Sabinillas still has some fabulous bars/restaurants and a blue flag beach and we really enjoy being there.

But, and a big one at that - don't buy a property if you need to rent it out to cover your expenses!!  It most certainly won't happen and it's a bad investment choice!!  If you can afford to keep it without renting it out then consider the prospects, but never buy on the back of renting it out - bad, bad decision!

thanks so much for the feedback guys :)

i wouldnt be relying on massive returns for rent, as it would not have to pay a mortgage.. but would obviously be hoping to make some kind of income over peak season june-august.. would it potentially be the same over peak season also?

Also Ive seen alot of similar apartments in duquesa going for a lot more i.e. between €130,000 min and €160,000+. 

Am i getting a great deal here.. or are the other prices im seeing slightly over inflated?

If the price you are paying is below the deemed value then you will have to eventually pay transfer tax on the higher deemed value or face the hassle of appeals and the cost of appointing a lawyer etc etc etc.  You can check this out quite easily.

Also make sure you check the staus of the community and obtain and read minutes of the latest AGM. Many communities are struggling financially due to developer not paying on unsold units and owners also not being able to afford to pay. Also minutes will highlight problems with licences/defects/infrastructure etc.

Also check and see you are ok with quota as some can be quite excessive!!

Also shop around for legal fees and make sure you know what is included in any fee quoted etc but do use a reputable lawyer and one who is thorough in his/her work. If you want to save money then apply for your own NIE and if not planning on being in Spain for completion then execute your POA in Spain as it will be cheaper than doing so in UK and then also paying legalisation. But my advice would be not to execute a POA but come yourself for completion.

Superd,

I think €115,000 is still to much to pay.  Hamilton Homes have got some 2 bed bank repos on Duquesa Golf for €100,000, with 100% mortgage.  I think there are also some bank repos for €100,000 on Princess Kristina as well.  Justin might be able to confirm this.  I've heard that banks are so desperate to get them off their books that they are prepared to listen to cheeky offers (say 70K).

You need to be careful and not buy buy on price alone.

There are some genuine bargains to be had from desperate sellers but at the same time they is some absolute rubbish out there that should never have been built in the first place and on communities with some serious problems.

So you need to cherry pick and make sure you do get a desireable property that ticks all the right boxes then that property should at least hold its value and hopefully appreciate in value in years to come.

Also do not rush into handing over any money to seller or estate agent until your appointed solicitor has checked everything out.

These days you set the rules. I would not pay over a reservation deposit or pay 10% on signing of a private contract. I would suggest skip the reservation deposit and just do a private contract for EUR3k or proceed directly to notary and complete Last thing you want for whatever reason is to end up in litigation. Estate agents vanish with buyer deposits so never let them hold any money etc etc. You only have to read these forums to see all the things that could go wrong even when using a solicitor.

Spain is very much like the wild west and there's a lot of cowboys and like always the ones that advertise the most are the biggest cowboys becuase that is how they get their clients/victims as the case may be!

Faro

' would suggest skip the reservation deposit and just do a private contract for EUR3k or proceed directly to notary and complete '

Very sensible advice anywhere in Spain and a serious seller [ and a professional agent]  will normally be prepared to go along with this as. provided all the appropriate information is available. the process at the Notary is relatively straight forward, if a bit long winded

So you pay your money and you get your property!

cheers everyone.. very much appreciated :)

i had a guy on another forum saying its not such a good price.. and most 2 beds in this area will be selling for between 90k and 115k over the next five years... would anyone support this advise?

might it be a good idea to hold of for a few months, or maybe next year??

Im certainly in no rush here, I just thought i was looking at a really good deal with this apartment. Is the spanish property market likely to take a few more hits before leveling out?

also.. can anyone recommend decent websites that offer good price repos etc around this area of spain?

Unless you really want to be in a 'Brits in Spain' community (and I'm not knocking this idea. It's a matter of choice) I would always suggest buying in a typical Spanish town or village...and there are plenty of English-speaking folks that live very happily in such places, so there's always someone to get to know if you don't speak Spanish!  The reason I suggest this to anyone who asks the question, 'Where's the best place to buy at the moment?' is because you will have a better chance of selling, should the need arise. 

The significant drop in property prices are attracting more Spanish buyers who are now able to afford them for themselves.  Also, whereas the Spanish have, largely, sought to buy or rent APARTMENTS...here in Almoradi there is a definite trend towards buying villas...ie, those reasonably-priced semis and detached villas in small communities (with or without pools) that the Brits are selling.  Of course, the UNreasonably-priced villas remain unsold.  This is great for us Brits that live in this type of property.  Where once there were very few Spaniards amongst us...more and more locals are moving in and we are now beginning to feel we really ARE living in Spain!  We love it.....

As far as the hundreds of empty apartments are concerned......there's not alot happening, I'm afraid.  There's just too many of the same out there.  Most buyers would rather have something that there aren't so many of.  We all like to put our own stamp on the place we call home and it's great to see all the different, creative touches in people's front gardens/patios.  Every day, we see Spaniards out walking around the outlying housing estates, stopping to admire flowers, plant pots etc in just the same way as we do!

We spent some time in Duquesa last year and, to be honest, we didn't rate the place...although this is only our personal opinion and we know people who love it there.  We actually stayed in one of the Princess Kristina apartments and, although it was the nicest apartment we have ever stayed in.....there was only one other person staying in the whole block of apartments we were in! This other person, a guy who was working in Gibraltar at the time, was only renting  the apartment he was in as a favour to a mate who needed help to pay his mortgage.

The Kristina Apartments are up a rather steep hill, along with hundreds of other apartments, across the dual-carriageway behind the Port..  It was hard work having to walk down this hill to the carriageway, then walk along the roadside pavement to get to the footbridge that crossed the carriageway...to get to Duquesa.  It was hell 'climbing' back up this hill.  There's no way a less-fit couple could have walked up it.  If we took the car to the nearest large supermarket, we had to follow the carriageway for a mile or so in the opposite direction to where we were going so that we could go round a roundabout and back down again to start travelling in the right direction!   From the apartment we were in, we could see several housing complexes in the hills nearby, a closer inspection revealing that every single complex was empty. 

I see very little chance of a rental income here, even over the summer months.  If you want to buy...buy something in a Spanish area and, if you can afford to, buy a house. That last line of advice is to all would-be buyers of Spanish property who may want to sell in a few years.  Certainly don't buy for investment unless you can hang onto it for several years and if it's for yourselves to holiday in.....RENT.  There's hundreds of places to choose from.

By the way, when we asked (being nosey)  the local agent who was still selling Princess Kristina property, 'How much could we get a 2-bed, 2-bath apartment for?' he told us he could get us one at HALF the price they were advertised for!  How revealing is that?

Sabinillas....love it!

Hi Meggie

That's a really good posting and I agree with you totally.

The only comment I would add is that sometimes the Spanish don't want to move onto British communities sometimes because they feel out numbered or maybe it just doesn't have Spanish character and other times because they won't pay the steep community fees.

Also the Spanish are not stupid and they are cherry picking at the moment and picking up some very good properties and decent and realistic prices.

My Spanish property is on a mostly Spanish community which suits me just fine. All properties are owned (ie non held by developer) and most are occupied all year round so our community runs smoothly!

 Thanks to all for your advise here.. very helpful and much appreciated ;)

 You should may be look carefully Hidalgos development before move forward.

hi guys.. thanks again for all the great feedback here

i never went ahead with the purchase of this property, as i wasnt entirley moved by the develpment as a whole, and more so the apartment itself.

the area itself was really impressive so may be back soon looking for some advise on alternatives

cheers

dave

Probably a good move.  Wait a few years when you'll be able to get a 2 bed appartment for 50K.  They're still vastly over-priced in this part of Spain.