Community owner problem

Hi, we own a semi detached property that is in a community. Half of the properties have no driveways and full walls around their property to the front of us and at the side. The other half including us have  a break in the wall with double gates. We have taken the gates out and put a wall there which matches the ones mentioned, however we had to obtain retrospective permission as we didn't realize we had to ask first. Unfortunately at the recent AGM it has been voted against but we don't know why and what the problem is (we couldn't attend). We also ask d to knock through a wall under the outside stairs to make a small storage cubby hole which quite a few of the other owners have but this has also been refused. Is their anything we can do to challenge these decisions? I know we have 3 months to appeal but feel it would just fall on deaf ears! 

Any help and advice would be greatly received.

Dawn

Why do you think the planning laws are diferent in Spain than the UK 

You cannot just build knockdown modernise what you want without some permission stop been so selfish and DO IT by the book if everyone behaved this way then we may as all go and live with the Diddycoys HA HA sorry couldnt resit that one

Love Hugh xx

ps come and live in Jaywick you can build the HELL what you want here, 

 come and live in Jaywick you can build the HELL what you want here,

Hugh...Thats because 'HELL' has already been built there.

Hi Dawn,

The comment from Hugh is probably accurate although as always you need to make allowances for him, it takes all sorts...

If it were me I would have a word asap with your President to explain your position.  Under the legal stuff that applies to urbanisations the President has a lot of power, but even he will struggle to justify overturning a vote at an AGM.  For sure, he will be able to explain why the vote went against you and you may be able to negotiate a compromise. 

Good luck

Retrospective advice    -   Look before you leap

Current advice    -    Be nice to the president, discuss your possible appeal with him/her and ask for his advice on solving your problem.

Hugh, we weren't being selfish, just didn't realize that we had to ask permission to make what is a relatively small change to OUR property. We did however ask to make a storage room under outside stairs as others have done but this has been refused. Boys ganging up together springs to mind. I'm sure you are a really nice bloke and full of banter. Enjoy your evening. 

Hugh, we weren't being selfish, just didn't realize that we had to ask permission to make what is a relatively small change to OUR property. We did however ask to make a storage room under outside stairs as others have done but this has been refused. Boys ganging up together springs to mind. I'm sure you are a really nice bloke and full of banter. Enjoy your evening. 

Hugh, we weren't being selfish, just didn't realize that we had to ask permission to make what is a relatively small change to OUR property. We did however ask to make a storage room under outside stairs as others have done but this has been refused. Boys ganging up together springs to mind. I'm sure you are a really nice bloke and full of banter. Enjoy your evening. 

The "cubby" hole. If other residents have carried out similar work, they can't refuse you permission to do the same providing you have informed the town hall and received a minor works licence. In this case, I assume the ones that have done it have got the architect report as it may interfere with the foundations. If the architect passed the building as safe in the first place then that should be OK.

When you moved into a community, were you not informed that making changes to the structure (building, raising a wall etc) needed both community and planning permission? In fact, even if you don't live on a community you need the planning permission from the town hall as it may alter the wording on your deeds. For example, I have an outside utiity room which was extended. The "superficie" is different on my deeds to those who didn't have them extended. It can also alter the amount of council tax you pay.

The "cubby" hole. If other residents have carried out similar work, they can't refuse you permission to do the same

Other residents may also not have applied for the relevant permissions. If so the fact that they exist has no bearing on the matter.

Even if they have the relevant permissions it may be that the works (in the original case) did not impinge on the rights or views of the neighbours and hence received no objection. A trastero under stairs that are for your own use could elicit a much different response from neighbours than one under a shared staircase or in plain view of a common area.

In my experience people who just go ahead and do it without asking tend to get away with it. Even when denounced. When they do get caught is when the ayuntamiento has decided to raise cash by coming down on unregistered builds, but even then the perpetrators usually get retrospective permission by paying for it.

The rules also seem to get applied differently depending where you reside.

I think you're reading it wrong. What I meant was that the community can't refuse alterations if other householders have carried out similar work. The town hall can refuse, of course, and come down on those who have done the work if they haven't asked for a licence.

We had a similar thing and the administrators (and the president) pointed out they can't stop work being done as it was "implicitly" agreed. Several houses had gardens tiled without permission. Others then tiled theirs and were told to stop as it was specifically in the rules not to. However, when those getting tiling done objected as other properties had done so then the "implicitly" agreed bit came in. This was confirmed by the administrators.

"cubby" holes, a sort of mini-underbuild, would need architect inspection due to the possible effect on foundations. 

Hi, we would be nice to the president if we could contact him. He doesn't reside there and no one is allowed his email for direct contact, we always have to go through the administrators. In regards to the cubby hole, we are not too bothered about that but I know 100% that no one has asked for town hall permission to have them done or involved architects, plus lots of people have added balustrades to their walls with only the agreement of the community. And no we did not know that we had to ask for planning permission otherwise it changes the deeds and the administrators never told us. They just said the wall would be discussed at the AGM and if agreed it could stay. I think we just feel a little put out by it all. Mainly because we had a lovely gravel led garden which every time we went over it as full of cat poo and weeds as it was being used as a toilet by all the stray cats and the weeds were being populated from the garden next door because it wasn't kep under control. Despite numerous requests to the administrators to deal with it nothing was done so in the end we took the decision to pay for it to be tiled so we could enjoy our holidays there rather than having to deal with all the crap every time we went. We added the small wall as it looked better than the double gates and made ours look the same as the 20 others that had been built fully walled without gates to the left of us, however the 20 to the right all have the gates.

You've got to be more positive.  The fact that the President is not immediately available may be a good thing - he may take more interest when you make contact with him as your contact will be more of a rarity.  There will always be ways of doing - knocking on his door, speak to his friends or neighbours or via his keyholder, as a last resort drop a note through his door asking him to give you a call, no more.

This is the key, you need to have a friendly chat with him/her to be able to understand the other point of view.  Be prepared to listen and let him/her feel relaxed in the conversation as it sounds like he/she is a bit reclusive!

There is another way to deal with the problem. You do what you like and when the president/community says you must take down what you have done you just say "yes of course I will, as soon as all other infringements/alterations by other owners have been put back to original condition". This way you are not disputing the problem but insist that everyone else does the same. This is called stalemate in English or the Spanish way in Spain.

I know of other communities with similar problems and whilst the president can huff and puff you just state that he has to take you to Court with all the associated costs, which has to be speciffically approved by the community, and just before you enter Court you comply with the request which means that the president is liabale for all the legal fees. Not a way of endearing yourself to your neighbours but this is what happens in Spain.

Steone.   yes of course I will, as soon as all other infringements/alterations by other owners have been put back to original condition".

Diddy. 

Do not do that, unless you want to loose.

Even in Spain two wrongs do not make a right, nor give you any legal leverage.  Bit like telling the police  not to give you a ticket because others who are speeding didn’t get one.

It's a fair idea Steone, but I agree partially with Johnzx and some folk just don't want the aggro.  Also, you need to be careful with the brinkmanship, or you might get lumbered with the court costs.

Diddys.  

Thinking a little further on this:  It is probable you needed permission from the community, to apply for a building permit from your town hall before doing the work, and depending on the rules locally you may have needed to involve an architect too befire getting te permit. 

Making a fuss might mean you will have problems with the town hall.