Mac's Poll - Let's Vote

anyroads said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 2:16 AM

Yes, I believe we should all pay our bit.

Bring on those Spanish bank deductions !!

midasgold said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 5:37 AM

Only a matter of time for the same thing here in Spain.
It's the slippery slope for the euro and it's demise.

george said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 5:49 AM

I've got news for you. It already happened in Spain. I had sixty thousand euros in the Cam bank. This was converted to Sabadell shares worth about fourty percent less. Also a similar situation with money deposited in the Caixa bank.

Fred said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 7:18 AM

Cyprus is only a test piece designed to gauge reaction from the 'little man' in the street. 'Bully boy' tricks, are normally tried out on the weaker/smaller people/countries first. And then further actions upon reactions. We all know how Hitler thought, and where it lead. Coming at the same time as the Spanish 'Overseas investment declaration' it makes one think ?

steve cummings said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 7:38 AM

I would imagine sales of safes in Spain will have gone through the roof. :>)

Graham said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 7:52 AM

The euro stinks. I love living in spain and have fitted in to the spanish life indeed with a spanish wife. But. I have taken my rose coloured glasses off and realise that the bottom line is that l am here for the sun. Spain has changed over the last few years not often for the good. I will accept most things cause l want to live here but l do not trust the motives behind the declaration of wealth and assets and do believe that what has happened in Cyprus is only the start. I have money and a property in the uk. And. I have paid tax and still do on it all. I haven't caused this problem but fear that me and others will soon be shafted.

Leo Leon said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 8:20 AM

First of all I am no Financial Wizard or even an apprentice.
I do believe that the early EU was so eager for new members that it did not stipulate, control or check the entry conditions of applying countries.
Hence we have a variety of conditions throughout the EU. My friend's dad retired on full pension at the age of 40. I wont divulge the land, as it is irrelevant in this piece. What is relevant is, how on earth can a country sustain this level of extravagance?
So are we now at a position where hardworking, frugal countries are destined to bail out countries that are not? Germany & Holland have extended the age of retirement to 67 to help to pay for the countries that provide a full pension for some workers at the age of 40 and most others at 55.
We all have to pull our weight, alas the EU did not begin with a level playing field but it's about time it was levelled out.
Cheers
Leo

Anna said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:03 AM

Much as I deplore the theft of ordinary people's money in Cyprus, many were earning rates of interest we in Spain could only dream of. In real terms, they are still better off than us. Therefore any "raid" on Spanish residents' cash would be infinitely worse because this would be a loss of capital not just interest.

Celia said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:10 AM

Daylight robbery! They should rename the banks, 'RobinHood.com' except they keep every penny and tell the poor to fend for themselves. I can see civil war erupting and I don't plan to wait around for it to happen, here's one expat making plans to return home!

rymski said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:13 AM

I'm in support of this measure. Think that it should have been applied to all banks world-wide at the very start of the crisis in 2008.

If a few banks had gone bankrupt then it would have encouraged the others to adopt better practice and Cyprus would never have happened!

Think how much we are ALL paying for a lack of resolution to this cancer - in the UK GB pound has been devalued by 20 to 30%, imports (cos we don't make anything any longer!), fuel etc costs more. Businesses, jobs, housing market, public sector etc etc are all devastated.

Much, much fairer to make those who can afford it better to pay for casino banking. If banks CAN fail and their investors suffer, won't it make investors in other banks to be much more vigilant as to how their bank functions.

George said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:17 AM

I've been trying to escape Spain for years now but trying to sell my house is proving impossible. I feel as if I'm being held down and robbed blind by this country already so if they start taking what little cash I have left, I truly don't know what I shall do.

Andyhighcock said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:18 AM

I just feel as though I am being legally raped it disgusts me

Eloy said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:21 AM

My prediction for the future with regard to the EU is that the union might probably shrink to the just few wealthy northern European countries and the poorer ones of the south going solo and restarting their economies from scratch with the same hardship for the people as they are having at the moment but in the long run it will probably be the best as it seems there is no way out to the present crisis. All I know for certain is that the tourist industry will flourish helping the economy and create more jobs.

H v petty said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:42 AM

Germany lost two world wars using Guns, Bombs and Bullets. It has now started world war III but this time it will win using the Euro!!!
We are about to see the destruction of a countries economy

Sue said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:07 AM

This is a dangerous precedent to set, once they start taking money from people outside the law, no-one's money is safe. It was the banks, given the opportunity by the Thatcher/Reagan philosophy of letting the markets do what they wanted, that caused this crisis by their greed. I don't see any of them losing even their bonuses, let alone their houses, or their jobs.if you or I committed the crimes they have, they'd throw away the key. It's the same old story,one rule for the rich.

JWhite said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:12 AM

The most frightening thing I feel about this in the UK is the deafening silence of our politicians here who have all kept quiet since it happened in Cyprus. Why? Me being a cynic believes that all PM's of the EU are now considering this could be an option to bale out every country with a debt problem.

The other concern I have is that this is the start of communism throughout the EU with Brussels heading the new soviet union ! Wealthier individuals baling out poorer countries. We in the UK are paying twice - once at £50m per day into Brussels and twice when immigrants come here and claim everything without paying a penny piece in. I hate the EU and will vote UKIP here to get out of the biggest con of all time. Brussels will continue to rob anyone including their grandmother to avoid admitting that the euro is dead in the water and to admit defeat of their very expensive project. It will take a civil war to change things and there is a very real ripple throughout Europe as they undertake robbery on this scale. Of course the politicians will ensure their money is stashed in a safe place and I would like to bet that over the next 12 months banks in the UK and elsewhere in the EU will take a massive hit on the withdrawal of savings which will be placed into other more safe investments (me too!).

Lynn said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:13 AM

The Euro is a failed concept for the poorer countries. It was from the start. Many have been on the Euro gravy train and don't want it to stop, making money galore.Germany holds the purse strings as it's the wealthiest nation, it has bailed out many nations and now it wants some of it back. Germany wants to keep the Euro and control the Euro zone as it's industry has benefited economically. It is only a matter of time before the whole thing unravels, I agree with Eloy, when he says it will probably be just the few richer northern EU countries in a smaller union. We vote these people into power, not really knowing what they will do or the implications for us. We vote for a idea, but in reality we have no say what so ever. I feel for the average person in Cyprus, they are the new guinea pigs as to what they will endure before revolution. I now see how revolutions can start. We need one soon. The EU has failed through many mistakes, who is to pay for it the people of course an easy target. If you have any money it's best kept under the mattress, where they can't get their hands on it. I can see many people that have any money will slowly withdraw funds from the Banks.

Harryfish said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:19 AM

We are heading into a dark period. The extremely rich and powerful took peoples homes away without much more than a whimper, now emboldened they are really making people pay.
Why do we tolerate bankers still earning millions when they should be in jail?

acer biggles said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:30 AM

As usual the *ankers get away with it. Have never understood the logic for borrowing more money to pay back debt. Those who made the most profit should contribute a higher percentage towards the bailout. The board members of these banks in particular, not the small account holders. It is the board and the government that agreed with the decisions. The euro was a good idea but flawed and we are beginning to see the real cost.

Orda said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:31 AM

If I was to walk into a bank and say "Give me 60% of what's in your till, because I want it", I would be arrested and charged with attempted robbery. So how can it be acceptable for a government to do exactly that when they have frittered away all the taxpayers money on their crooked schemes and off-shore accounts. All politicians, bankers, property developers and lawyers should be arrested and made to pay back everything they have lost through incompetence or stolen because of their greed. ESPECIALLY IN SPAIN! Search all the off-shore and Swiss bank accounts now and seize the money!

rymski said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:42 AM

Just heard that the haircut is going to be 60%.

Strong case to make for some form of PPI (Payment Protection Insurance of notorious UK fame!) to be made by better-off investors.

Why should I pay for risk takers - it's blooming obvious after 2008 that putting money in a bank is risky.

Why do investors think that they are immune to loss - doesn't that only apply for those running the banks!!!!

BigBrenda said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 11:03 AM

The situation in Cyprus is complicetd - what country do you know where they specify how much capital allowance you can have on an armoured car or a motor yacht!
So there is no easy solution. It is a tax haven and the banks have been getting into a mess for years. Taxation levels for working individuals is low (>€19,000 pa tax free) and only 5% pa on pensions - with no tax payable on interest income. Company tax is even more generous!
From what I have read only savings in one bank is being taxed heavily (20% if you have over €100,000) - all savings in other banks are only at 4%.
Now I know I don't have €100,000 in savings in my Spanish bank account - let alone in the Bank of Cyprus, and I've paid my tax for 40 years on my earnings and savings in both the UK and Spain, so maybe it's time for the people of Cyprus to cough up and contribute more to the EU.
I think this is a one off to allow Cyprus to have it's bailout and remain in the EU, I don't think it is going to spread around Europe at the moment. How many people who have posted on here have €100,000 in the bank and would actually be affected?

Rob said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 11:07 AM

the problem is the EU does not have the noney to Bail out all the economies which are failing/Spain Italy
Eire greece were bailed out but greece keeps needing more money

There is not the money to keep bailing out banks and Bail out investors
The economic policies of the EU have destroyed the economies of these countries

Rob said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 11:08 AM

the problem is the EU does not have the noney to Bail out all the economies which are failing/Spain Italy
Eire greece were bailed out but greece keeps needing more money

There is not the money to keep bailing out banks and Bail out investors
The economic policies of the EU have destroyed the economies of these countries

Robin said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 12:08 PM

This is the 1933 brown shirts knock on the door just to test if there is any solidarity between med rim countries.

manxmonkey said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 1:22 PM

DOH! I can't believe how thick some of the people writing here are although it appears as usual the majority are sensible. When I lived in the USA the bank went bust and I lost my money, end of! Luckily I had just finished building a property and had not a lot of cash left to lose - I say luckily because (this was 30 odd years ago) no one had a guardian angel bailing out the depositors then. The situation in Europe today is simple, EU countries guarantee to safeguard the first €100,000 of depositors money. That's it. But some countries bank debts are bigger than the wealth of the country so in some cases this "guarantee" is worth as much as the words on paper Fiat currencies, "I promise to pay the bearer on demand". Surely we all know that - what on earth has Germany got anything to do with Cypriots losing their savings? The initial scam from the inept Cypriot politicians was to try to dis-honour this legal and binding contract to protect, along with the honest hard workers who had more than the 100K, all the damned crooks who had millions. Why did they have millions in there? Because the regime was lax regarding money laundering from Russia and Bulgaria and because THEY PAID HIGHER THAN SUSTAINABLE INTEREST RATES. Remember, when something looks too good to be true it usually is. The fact that Germany is lending a huge wedge to all and sundry is an additional story, the bank collapse is not Germany's fault. But we all worry it may happen elsewhere and of course want to safeguard our hard earned savings. I have a lot of bank accounts hoping to cover myself with the guarantee but check that your banks are not all the same damned company with a different name and therefore only guaranteeing 100K in total. If you have worked hard and have savings do the same It's damned hard saving it so why let some idiot scheming over-paid banker or politician thieve it from you? Then buy some gold; some investment grade coins; a spread of shares and bonds, fill the wine cellar with classified growth clarets from 09 and 10. I've been lucky enough to help my kids a little and given a few bob to charities too. So once you've safeguarded your wealth as much as possible buy a good safe and a gun!

John R said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 2:18 PM

manxmonkey I agree with you when you say you need to safeguard your savings the best way you can so it can't be stolen from you but your view on Germany is rather naive. They have been pulling the strings for years and running the EU from behind doors, in totally undemocratic manner. Full stop. The main worry with the Cypriot crisis is that they initially demanded a 6% of all saving under 100,000 proving they were prepared to not guarantee savings if Cyprus had gone along with it. All Germany constantly did was justify it by saying the money was from Russians. The problem is the EU doesn't work and it is obvious to everyone. But they will still invent schemes and tools to keep it alive while they manage to get more power, control and money.

Pazz said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 2:19 PM

It is a little Draconian BUT - like Greece I am lead to believe that the "tax system" is er - well not fit for purpose to start with.
The Russians are putting huge amounts into the Cypriot banks for what reason?
Could it be to do with evading TAX?

However I agree about the idiots in Brussels (again is it fit for purpose?). In fact we should take those idiots to their much loved court of human rights - you never know we may even get the same rights a certain ex Jordanians!

Timbucktoo said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 2:42 PM

BigBrenda - clearly the folk who have over €100,000 are concerned, and those who don't not so much. If Spain's people, including millions of Brits, here have their accounts raided, I am assured by my bank manager and also a personal friend, who is a finance expert (but doesn't work for me or have a reason for an opinion one way or the other) there will be a revolution, and streets will be burnt. As such, the Spanish government would not dare allow a Robin Hood bank attack. I'm not so sure though, or if they would be able to prevent it.

Does anyone know who these gits are at Brussels? ie are their any names, addresses or emails addresses about? We voted in our named politicians democratically and know who they are to contact.

But the europrats??? JUST WHO THE HELL ARE THEY?

Brian Bradly said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 6:35 PM

I don't agree with forced financial control of any economy, but,
I guess if you jump in the muck You must expect to come out smelly
Maybe better to climb out before it goes off

Garry said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 6:49 PM

The problem is that neither politicians or the media are standing up and saying this is fundamentally WRONG on so many levels. Where is the voice of common sense. If you allow people to bully you and steal from you they will do it all the more. Germany is at the core of this bullying and needs to be stopped in its tracks before we have rioting on the streets across Europe.

M Whitney said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 7:04 PM

Never mind the detail of what is happening in Cyprus: it is the principle that matters. Banks are confiscating money from deposit accounts: not allowed; end of story. It is totally illegal and there must be an appeal to the EU court of justice to have the fact of illegality confirmed. That makes the EU a laughing stock throughout the world. Not even the tinpot dictatorships do this. If it remains unchallenged, without doubt in no time at all, corrupt governments such as Spain, or anywhere else in the word actually, will start to think that they, too, can get away with it. As Mr J White says, the EU and the Euro simply do not work and it needs to be stopped now before any more irreparable damage is done. They are going to drive Cyprus into the hands of Russia who will negotiate naval bases in the Med with unknowable consequences. I have long thought that these people in Brussels must be stupid; they have now proved it beyond doubt. Cyprus must come out and start the inevitable ball rolling.

Londoner43 said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 8:17 PM

Why should the German taxpayers and the people in the prudent and hard-working north European countries bail out countries that have behaved irresponsibly? My sisters in Finland live on modest incomes or pensions and life is getting tougher and tougher for them as the government needs to find money to contribute towards the bail-outs of other Eurozone countries. I agree that there was not enough due diligence done when some countries were encouraged to join the Eurozone group. Also, I have seen reports that some very rich Russians were given notice of the clamp-down in Cyprus and managed to get their money out. Why did Cyprus allow their banking system to be used in Russian money laundering in the first place? My son has recently moved to Spain and is too worried to put his (modest amount of) money in a Spanish bank, so I am holding it for him in the UK. To add to his voes, the Spanish banks charge for receiving funds from other EU countries, although the regulations quite clearly state that such transfers should be free of charges.

Gericom said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 9:03 PM

I am constantly amazed by the inaccurate and erroneous perceptions about the reasons for the current situation in Cyprus. The basic principles of lending require a "willingness" and a "capacity" to repay on the part of the borrower and if the borrower has a poor record then the loan request is rejected. All loans come with terms & conditions decided by the lender and the security needed is more onerous when the borrower is clearly a risky party. This is what is happening in Cyprus. The country is getting a loan (not a grant) from the EU and it comes with conditions. Apparently it was the Cypriot authorities themselves who proposed the "levy" on depositors funds not the EU. The monumental mistake was to suggest that the levy would apply to deposits under €100k since there was supposed to be a state guarantee in place covering such deposits. The EU should never have entertained that proposal but it does bring home to all a very important lesson: a state guarantee is only as good as the state backing it.....and of course imprudent and insolvent states that have encouraged reckless lending and financial dealings and turned a blind eye to major irregularities in their financial system should not expect easy bailout from their prudent co-states.

La Reserva De Marbella said:
Saturday, March 30, 2013 @ 10:42 PM

How many BILLIONS of Euro have already left Spain - I wonder?

Timcucktoo said:
Sunday, March 31, 2013 @ 8:53 AM

I REPEAT, WHERE CAN WE FIND THE ID AND CONTACT DETAILS OF THE PEOPLE IN BRUSSELS WHO ARE ENDORSING THIS ILLEGAL IMMORAL ACT?

THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD EMAIL THEM ,WRITE TO THEM, NAME AND SHAME THEM ON EVERY WEB PAGE AND BLOG, AND GO AN KNOCK ON THEIR DOORS.

manxmonkey said:
Sunday, March 31, 2013 @ 4:45 PM

John R - You are totally wrong mate. Read what Gericom said just now. He's laid it out easily for you to understand and as I said, THE CYPRIOT GOVT immediately came up with the scheme to steal from everyone's deposits even though it is illegal as they have signed up to guarantee the first 100K of deposits. This scheme protected the wealthier depositors who although would take a haircut on all of their deposits would actually still get most of their zillions back. However as I said, the deposit protection scheme is no good if the country guaranteeing the deposits is just another Iceland. If you want to know about the EU and how totally undemocratic it is you can start at the beginning. I have books from the 50's on. Although it was supposed to always be an ECONOMIC COMMUNITY if you read, for instance, Jean Monnet, the First Statesman of Interdependence you will see that there was always a political unification agenda. You can also see a lot of live broadcasts on Youtube but really you need to read how the likes of Nai Bevan

manxmonkey said:
Sunday, March 31, 2013 @ 4:45 PM

John R - You are totally wrong mate. Read what Gericom said just now. He's laid it out easily for you to understand and as I said, THE CYPRIOT GOVT immediately came up with the scheme to steal from everyone's deposits even though it is illegal as they have signed up to guarantee the first 100K of deposits. This scheme protected the wealthier depositors who although would take a haircut on all of their deposits would actually still get most of their zillions back. However as I said, the deposit protection scheme is no good if the country guaranteeing the deposits is just another Iceland. If you want to know about the EU and how totally undemocratic it is you can start at the beginning. I have books from the 50's on. Although it was supposed to always be an ECONOMIC COMMUNITY if you read, for instance, Jean Monnet, the First Statesman of Interdependence you will see that there was always a political unification agenda. You can also see a lot of live broadcasts on Youtube but really you need to read how the likes of Nai Bevan

manxmonkey said:
Sunday, March 31, 2013 @ 4:52 PM

John R - Sorry, ran out of space but de Gaulle was not the only one working to keep the UK out of the EEC. Jacques Delors and sundry others have since tried to empire build and you'll see more influence from France and little Belgium than Germany and nowadays the likes of Hungary; The Czech Republic and Estonia than they could possibly warrant and when you see the EU pushing non democratic governments onto Italy and Greece the it makes Gordon Brown's interfering in the likes of The Turks and Caicos look like Toytown.

wodger said:
Sunday, March 31, 2013 @ 7:10 PM

I.M.O. the common currency will never work, the Germans & Northern Europeans were quite happy when all was well & the Southern Countries were buying technology,engineering & hi tech./cost goods from them, they were only too pleased to loan euros for the poorer countries to buy their goods. Now that they have to put their hands in their pockets to bail countries out, they are not so happy. Some of the countries are just too far apart in living standards & expectations for the Euro to work. This is similar to the situation when the USSR broke up as it could not sustain the poorer countries & they wanted their independence anyway.

Jeremy said:
Sunday, March 31, 2013 @ 8:34 PM

There is no difference between taxing deposits in Cyprus and the proposed Mansion Tax in the UK. both are just taking from those that have an asset rather than taking from those that ought to hand over.