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A blended blog - Spanish life and culture meets English author, editor and freelancer who often gets mistaken for Spanish senora. It's the eyes that do it! Anything can and probably will happen here.

Telling Jeremy Vine why we should still get the Winter Fuel Allowance in Spain
Saturday, June 29, 2013 @ 12:17 PM

I had quite a surprise in my inbox on Wednesday. A researcher on BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine Show contacted me after reading this blog post on EOS, defending the rights of British expats to continue receiving the Winter Fuel Allowance (WFA). It's back in the news again, because George Osborne wants to apply a Temperature Test to the allowance. He'll take the average winter temperature of the warmest place in the UK, and if it's warmer where you live, you'll lose the allowance. The researcher asked if I'd be prepared to go on the Jeremy Vine Show and put the case for British expats in Spain. Would I ever!

I was a bit nervous, because I know Jeremy Vine can be a bit of a terrier, but as I listened to his introduction to the topic, it was clear he thought George's idea was impractical. So did Ros Altman, the former Government policy adviser and pensions expert who also appeared on the show. She called the Temperature Test idea 'eccentric,' and said it was one of those things you expected to hear on April 1st. According to Ros, more revenue would be raised if the WFA was taxed, and it would be less controversial.

When it came to my turn, I explained that it was about a lot more than temperature - houses in Spain are built to be cool in summer rather than warm in winter, and the fact that every Spanish house is built with a non-ornamental open fireplace should give you a clue on that one. As I said to Jeremy - I love name dropping, don't you? - George Osborne has obviously never been to the Costa Blanca in January or February. If he had, he'd realise the idea was a non-starter. Nick Clegg could have put him right on that one, though,as his wife his Spanish. However, the Boy Nick seems even more anxious to rob pensioners than George - he wants to stop the WFA altogether.

Obviously, people have the wrong idea about the financial circumstances of most expat pensioners, because the next question was, 'If you lose the WFA, will you have to cut back on things like eating out to make up for it?' Remembering I was on National Radio, I resisted the urge to make a two word reply. This is a family friendly blog, so I won't tell you what that reply was, but here's a clue - the second word was 'off!'

Then the communicator in me took over, and I explained that contrary to popular opinion, most expat pensioners in Spain do not live the Life of Riley. We cut down on eating out about three years ago, and so did most of our friends. Unlike George Osborne and his Parliamentary colleagues, we are on fixed incomes, which in real terms are worth less and less with every passing year.

Jeremy then made the point that as I had two homes - one in the UK and one in Spain - I could be considered a wealthy expat pensioner who didn't need the WFA. I soon put him right on that one. My apartment in Spain would fetch around 80,000 Euro - assuming I could find a buyer - and I have a static caravan in the UK worth about £15,000, so I can hardly be called Two Homes, can I?

When Jeremy asked me what I'd say to George Osborne, it was the easiest question to answer - I'd say, 'Hands off my Winter Fuel Allowance!' I was pretty chuffed with myself when Jeremy closed the interview by saying I'd made my points well. Today the Jeremy Vine Show - tomorrow the world! Form an orderly queue for autographs, and if you sell your story to the papers - 'I knew her before she was famous' - just keep it clean, please!

 

 



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36 Comments


Allan Francis said:
Saturday, June 29, 2013 @ 11:28 AM

Some decent points, but lets be fair...overall in a 12 month period, you spend much less on keeping warm in Spain than you would in the UK.


Gerald said:
Saturday, June 29, 2013 @ 8:05 PM

Sandra although I agree with you & I like you live in the mountains where at times it is every bit as cold as the UK, I consider myself lucky to live in Spain with predominent warm weather.
Today for instance it is 24c but in Middle England it is 15c - cool. Although I don't want them to take it away, I would understand if they did.


Scott Morris said:
Sunday, June 30, 2013 @ 2:59 AM

Isn't there a European Law against what Osborne intends to do regarding the WFA for ex-pats? If so, what's happening about implementing it?


Chris Boston said:
Sunday, June 30, 2013 @ 2:33 PM

We have made our full contributions via our national insurance while we both worked full time in the UK, therefore why should we suffer discrimination just because we choose to end our days in another EU country. It is cold here in Spain from November to March and the houses are not built to retain heat, but to be cool, we have tiled floors, not fitted carpets and most homes do not have central heating either. Therefore it costs more to keep our houses warm and retain the heat generated here than in the UK, due to the design of the houses, most of which are open plan.
We are not "rich pensioners" we live on my husband's state pension , as mine has been delayed by nearly four years, due to the age changes, which are applied fairly for citizens who live in Spain and the UK, why is the fuel allowance not dealt with in the same manner for all!!!

We are not asking for privileges, only fair treatment for all pensioners!!


Allan Francis said:
Tuesday, July 2, 2013 @ 1:01 PM

Surely when you come to spain you budget for at least some heating costs? If not then quite bluntly you are a fool. You are not telling me that it cost just £300 less to heat a house in Spain for a full year than it does to heat an equivalent siized house int he UK? Lets be fair, most people fritter their heating allowance. it was introduce as a political football a few years ago, and to save all this hassle it should be abolished. I'm not far off claiming a UK pension, but I cringe when I think I will then be grouped as a 'money grabbing OAP'. there are so many who just whinge and whinge and have had a pretty decent life all told. Its the younger people who are having to finance the purchase of these older expats UK homes at inflated prices in the noughties who need some help. If you dont like Spain - go back to the Uk and get your £300. Even Gerald's talking sense on this one.


Sarah Makin said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 4:58 AM

Good Blog Sandra -we too live in Spain because of health reasons (the summer climate means we can take less medication -) - but this year we had our woodburner going from Oct - May!!!! Wood is NOT cheap - so the WFA is very necessary. We're still paying taxes in the uk - and we worked and paid in to the system for over 35 years - unlike many others who didn't (but let's not go there!!!) - so I agree with you - HANDS OF OUR WFA!! We love living in Spain - but any savings we have are dwindling (no real interest is being paid by the swindling banks) and our Government (doesn't matter which party is in power!!) seem to try and blame pensioners for the financial crisis - alluding that we're a drain on an over burdened system. (I think they feel we're living too long!!) Maybe they should take a look at their wine and food bill in the Houses of Parliament - that would clear a lot of debt!!!!


Annie said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 6:34 AM

Allan Francis - the "go back to the UK" jibe is hardly sensible given the state of the Spanish housing market. Falling house prices here, and the lack of buyers, is making it impossible for many, who would love to go back, to leave. Unless, of course, you would have us sacrifice our life savings and go back to rented accommodation. Please don't be so glib.


Marilyn Rust said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 6:35 AM

We moved over to Spain after taking early retirement because of my husbands health. He suffers from severe osteoarthritis and other complaints. After working all our adult life and paying our dies in the UK for allof that time I find it disgusting that because we've moved to another eu country in order to aid my husband having a better way of life in the retirement years, we are having the WFA taken away when we have to buy wood for our log burner from November to May and our house here is probably colder in winter than the houses in UK because of the way they are built. So, after taking our money all those years, not only have we had to battle to get free health care because the UK deemed it ok to delay my state pension for 3 years without any compensation whatsoever, so for the next 3 years I have now got to live on my savings, they are now taking away our WFA. I dread to think the state the UK would be in if all the expats in Spain decided that's it, it's the last straw, we're coming back to the UK. The national health can't cope now, if we all came back it'd sink. We don't get any help whatsoever bacause we chose to live in a warmer EU country to try and aid my husbands health problems. We have to cool our houses in he height of summer and warm them in winter so why do they think we don't need our WFA? They needed our money when they took for all those years we worked, no questions asked. It seems to me that when it suits we still live in the eu but when it doesn't suit we've just moved abroad.


Steve Cummings said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 7:04 AM

George Osborne should look at the bigger picture I think. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the WFA the sums involved on a national scale are quite small. Offset the cost against the fact that expat OAPs pay Tax on all their UK generated Pensions in the UK. But they have no access to what they are paying for. NHS, Public Transport, Police, Education Services, Libraries, Dentists and many more things which the average UK-dweller takes for granted as their right. There should be a little give-and-take here but all their is is "take". So I say "If you want to remove the only thing even close to a "perk" that we OAPs get, George Osborne, then allow me equal access to the UK Services that I pay for but do not get. :>(


Jane Walters said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 7:52 AM

Great post Sandra, and succinct answers on the radio. I've endured very cold winters in northern Spain and I always think it' a damp cold rather than a crisp 'English''type' cold!

Have the powers that be considered the number of British pensioners who perhaps don't NEED their winter fuel allowance, but still accept it anyway. Someone I know spent hers on a pair of very eccentric shoes.





Nels said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 8:17 AM

When the UK joined the EEC, we were told to be good Europeans, to forget our Island 'independence' to integrate and think of the benefits of belonging to a 'greater community'. Now those of us who used our pension and our savings to start a 'new' life, and embrace a new country find those 'petty minded' individuals remaining in the UK do not like us being treated equally, and consider us rich to be able to live abroad. It could equally be said that those who stay in the UK, are not prepared to leave a 'benefits society', withdrawing the winter fuel allowance is just another weapon of jealously, to be used against pensioners.



Rusty said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 8:24 AM

Changing WFA rules to a temperature based system for everyone circumvents EU rules. If the temperature falls outside of the figures set then you will not qualify whether you live in a UK or any other part of Europe. Quite reasonable I think, although in today's financial 'climate' perhaps the allowance should be dropped altogether and replaced with one based on need.


Bill said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 8:45 AM

The gov is not taking away your WFA to save money they are just tranfering it from you to Africa and India etc


watchmanager said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 8:47 AM

A good point Marilyn Rust makes, especially about the delay in pension payments which were 'Contracted' when starting work at 16. The many thousands of women born in the region of 1953 who instead of retiring at 60 have been forced to wait for their pension for 3 to 4 years longer. The yearly state pension of £8000 means that these ladies are having to either work these extra years or find an average of £30,000 from their hard worked for savings to live the retirement they contracted to. WHILST I agree that the pension time bomb has to be paid for, these women have been 'short changed at very 'SHORT' notice.Therefore, as the Government has removed this money from them WHICH WAS TAXED AT SOURCE AND AGAIN TAXED AS SAVINGS, don't you think they have more than paid for their entitlement to their right of wintertime allowance


GEORGE said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 8:52 AM

Take away the WFA and end all these arguments, I´m sure we can manage on 60p a day less.


Sandra Piddock said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 9:55 AM

Wow, this has really generated some comment. I particularly like the point about moving the goalposts for female pensioners. I fall into that bracket, as I was born in 1952, so I won't draw my pension until 2014.

Tony and I have always said that a fairer system would be to scrap all pensioner benefits and just allow them to receive their pensions free of tax. We'd be much better off, and as someone has pointed out, we've already been taxed on earnings and savings anyway. The government forgets about that, and they would probably never agree to it, as it would cost too much in lost revenue.

It's time to admit that pensioners are still contributing to the economy, rather than portraying us as a drain on the system. At least we've paid our dues - unlike the illegal immigrants and the Brits who have gone straight from school to benefits.


BigBrenda said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 10:06 AM

There have been some interesting points made by several people on here but Allan Francis hit the nail on the head!

Compare your annual cost of heating in Spain to what you would be spending in the UK.

Where we lived in the UK had no gas, so we heated our house using oil. A modern, 3-bed, fully insulated bungalow. Our oil bill was roughly £3000 pa and that was over 7 years ago. So what the cost would be now I dread to think.

This winter we spent about €30 - €40 per week for 5 months - so even using the maximum that's a grand total of €800. Now that's a big difference. Our house is an old Spanish one with the tiled floors and no carpets mentioned above.

My very elderly mother is living in a small 1-bed retirement flat and her heating bill for this year was about £50 per week - and for a lot longer. In fact she is still having to turn a fire onin the venings to keep warm.

I agree that as an ex-pat who paid tax and NI for 35 years I would like to be treated the same as a UK pensioner, but if I'm not I will understand why. I no longer contribute to the economy of the UK as I live and spend my money here. So why should I receive UK benefits?

PS The ladies hit the worst are the ones born after April 1955. They will have to wait 6½ years extra to receive their state pension. I know - I'm one of them, having been born in Aug '55. I left the UK to find a better life in Spain as I have suffered from arthritis since I was 30 and the benefits for me of living here far outweigh the disadvantages.


Kevin473 said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 10:15 AM

If they were to introduce the "temperature test" would they do it in various parts of a country, I mean in the foothills of the Pyrenees the mean average could be lower than the warmest place in the UK but the Costa del Sol would probably be higher, I mean to say some parts would get it but others would not. I have recently left Spain due to several circumstances and having to rent in the UK but I support the WFA for expats after all as other people have said a lot of people are still paying UK Tax due to Central or Local Government pensions, I know, I did. Also for the people who are suffering from debilitating illnesses like arthritis or whatever, they are able to claim Disability Living Allowance (care element only), this also applies to people who have been diagnosed as terminal and claim under "Special Payments". I managed to get 4 people to claim "Terminal DLA". The way to claim is under the gov.uk website


NormaB said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 10:26 AM

What is the situation with those pensioners who live in the UK but spend the winter in warmer climes? My parents, who are both dead now, spent January, February and March in Cyprus for many years and I am sure there are plenty of pensioners now that do the same. I assume they will still get their €200 (I dont think many get E300) without having to declare that they are out of the country for the really bad months. Its the principal of the whole thing. If you dont need the WFA then give it to somebody who does. As we all know, there are now food banks in the UK so I am sure many of those people would be very grateful for that extra €200.


peggy said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 10:29 AM

In answer to Scott Morris's question about there being a European law on Winter Fuel Allowance here's an article published in the Olive press last year that should answer his question: http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/09/04/expats-in-spain-to-benefit-from-winter-fuel-payment-following-eu-ruling/

I too live inland close to the mountains . From November to May it gets very cold indoors requiring plenty of heating of one sort or another including firing up a wood burner none of which is cheap. As a pensioner on a fixed state pension income I very much depend on the Winter Fuel Allowance.


peggy said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 10:41 AM

If you are concerned about losing winter fuel allowance-which might well be just a first step in stripping ex pats of benefits sign this petition
“http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43238″
Don’t assume somebody else is going to fight for you.


Phil said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 11:17 AM

Sandra,
I used to live near Bigbury and know it can get cold there, but nothing prepared me for my first winter in inland Andalucia. A brand new home, very warm in fact hot in summer, so air-con was a necessity not a luxury, but cold in the winter, despite installing a wood burner the place became like a deep freeze in winter, I have never been so cold in my life, and getting into freezing cold sheets was a very unpleasant experience, so no we don't perhaps need additional fuel for the winters, I am now on the coast, but for keeping cool instead. How dare they take WFP away after we paid taxes all our working lives.


SonofSyd said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 12:54 PM

I see that some people are trying to make a point by averaging heating costs throughout the year. It is called Winter Fuel Allowance so that is the only consideration. I live in Czech R. and although our winters are extreme here I felt much colder in Feb 2012 Costa Blanca, so my sympathies will all you folks.

The state pension from UK is so pathetic that I would consider it only fair to leave the WFA intact for us oldies who do not wish to remain in UK but still have contributed in contributions and taxes for a great number of years. I myself started work on my 15th birthday and retired at 68 years old. Please George Osbourne, give me a break.




David said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 1:06 PM

Not everyone lives on the Costa del Sol. I do, but what about pensioners living in Granada, just a short drive or bus ride away, or central Spain, or the north? And has anyone thought of the cost of air conditioning in summer? My electricity bills are higher in the summer than in winter for this reason. Heat can kill, not just cold.


George Robson said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 1:55 PM

Why don't people fully research theier options and intitlements before moving to Spain instead of whinging once they get here. They are very vocal in demands for british benefits while driving about in there British registered cars illegally in Spain and failling to pay their community fees because the are "poor". If you choose tp live in Spain do it with your eyes open fully and not selectively.


Laurel said:
Saturday, July 6, 2013 @ 9:12 PM

As pensioners who have 'paid in' and wanting what you are 'due' I can understand your feeling of entitlement. How do you feel about those of us currently paying for 'what you are due' pensions & heating allowances from our taxes in straightened economic times and who will probably have to work until we die because pensions are unaffordable and will probably be non-existent (unless working for the civil service). Do you think its right that it's not means tested? No one should be left in poverty unable to keep a roof over their heads. You should have adequate food & warmth. But surely this is what pensions were designed to do if this is not the case than of course every help should be given.


Adrian Chivers said:
Sunday, July 7, 2013 @ 12:01 PM

I pay UK tax on my private pension and receive nothing for it!
I am under retirement age so receive no health care in Spain, My wife's pension date has been put back several years, I just qualify for mine in 2016. So if George (Cayman Island) Osborne cuts WFA perhaps we should refuse to pay tax (I wish).Perhaps somebody could tell me where our taxes go.


Pat Dean said:
Sunday, July 7, 2013 @ 2:27 PM

The WFA is under threat because of expats boasting about their terrific life in sunny climes and claiming to use the WFA to pay for their Christmas day BBQ on the beach and others claiming to spend the allowance for a new pair of shoes or handbag. All of that is being used as a reason why it should be abolished plus the likes of Alan Sugar and David Dimbleby saying they and many rich pensioners don't want it.

I think it should be abolished and spread amongst all pensioners as a pension increase. Then the 'rich' pensioners will have to pay income tax on it.

If you are interested in getting the government to increase the state pension, you may wish to sign this petition:
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/department-for-work-and-pensions-we-urge-the-uk-government-to-bring-uk-state-pensions-in-line-with-europe#share

Form once you have an increase in the pension they can't take it away, although it can be eroded by inflation and currency exchange rates.


Allan Francis said:
Sunday, July 7, 2013 @ 10:31 PM

Its always laughable how many stupid people dont bother to do any research about Spain and its weather patterns. The number of idiots I have spoken to over the last 20 years here who are surprised it is cold in winter astounds me! They spend a week in Benidorm in August just once and think it will be like that all year round! Comical!

Its still a lot cheaper to heat a house here than the UK though. Your pensions are spent here (Spain) and consumable taxes paid here. You rejected the UK by moving to Spain so why do you think you should benefit now?

The moaning UK OAP is still alive and kicking.

At least I will fall intot he new higher pension bracket in a few years time. What a pity its not payable to existing OAPs!


Sandra Piddock said:
Monday, July 8, 2013 @ 10:31 AM

@Allan Francis When you are a pensioner yourself, you will realise how difficult it can be to make ends meet on a fixed income. I for one did not base my decision to move to Spain on a week in Benidorm in August, nor do I know anyone who did.

It's interesting that you brand anyone who doesn't share your views as 'stupid' or 'idiots.' I'm sure you'll change your views when your time comes to be a 'moaning pensioner.'


Paintpot said:
Tuesday, July 9, 2013 @ 1:50 PM

The W.F.A. was just another
carrot offered to O.A.Ps. to take their minds off the ever
increasing fuel increases, caused as a result of the idiotic
policy/taxes introduced to reduce carbon emissions. O.A.Ps or
baby boomers ( as we have now been labelled) are responsible
for the current crisis and therefore must pay.We were the wealth
creators who's legacy to the nation was wasted and continues to be by a bunch of self serving wasters.
So,stiff upper lip all us oldun's, don't whinge ,take it on the chin.







Tony Marron said:
Tuesday, July 9, 2013 @ 2:39 PM

The mentality of the British government is to reduce benefits to many irrespective of the merits. We find this in the stairlift industry whereby many grants and disabled living facilities are being cut back. Totally wrong - and a shame. Read our blog on the winter fuel subject and please comment accordingly as we are lobbying MP's on this subject including the plight of those living overseas such as in Spain where we have many retired clients.

Tony Marron Castle Comfort Stairlifts.


John Smith said:
Wednesday, July 10, 2013 @ 9:14 PM

If you elect to live (even part time) in Spain you should not be entitled to WFA.

Osborne is right: there are far too many sponging off UK state benefits. Just remember that the UK is in a period of austerity like many other countries and some cut backs are necessary. WFA to expats is one. And don't say, as a counter argument, that we should save on, say, foreign aid, or disability benefits,or whatever. They are valid points indeed but cuts / savings are needed all over the place.
Temperature test in the Uk? Splendid idea!


Allan Francis said:
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 @ 10:30 AM

Sandra, Im surprised that you assume that when I reach retirement age my income will be fixed. Just because one retires it doesnt mean ones income is static. Some people have invested for their future and have created a passive GROWING income for themselves. The Uk pension will be pocket money for me. And no I didnt inherit or win money - I worked hard for it and paid (and am still paying) a hell of a lot of money in UK tax too! Remove your blinkers and expand the context of your reality. Not all OAPs are on the breadline - some planned ahead and increase their prosperity as they age!


Louise D said:
Thursday, August 8, 2013 @ 3:14 PM

I am dismayed that so many female commentators here seem to have been unaware that they would not collect their pensions until they were 65, or 'staggered' between 60 - 64. This was announced in 1995 - not really short notice. And we have now got about 9 years to get used to the fact that it will be 66, not 65.

In an ideal world, I think WFA should be means tested, but I suspect that would cost more to do than the savings made. Or, as others have suggested, cut down on all the extra paperwork, pension credit, discounts etc., and just pay a decent pension to all.


Lin-marguerite said:
Friday, August 30, 2013 @ 7:15 PM

Allan Francis you don't have to wait to be a moaning OAP, you are managing quite well already.


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