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Spanish Eyes, English Words

A blended blog - Spanish life and culture meets English author, editor and freelancer who often gets mistaken for Spanish senora. It's the eyes that do it! Anything can and probably will happen here.

Who are the real benefit cheats, though?
Friday, February 28, 2014 @ 2:11 AM

I see that Iain Duncan Smith has been in Madrid to congratulate the benefit fraud team on recovering £5 million of UK taxpayer's money as a result of investigating around 1,200 cases of alleged benefit fraud by British expats. Don't get me wrong, I hold no brief for this sort of thing, but I really wonder why there is such a sustained campaign going on here, when most of the real benefit cheats can be found in the UK.

For a start, aren't the MPs who have been convicted of falsely claiming expenses also benefit frauds? After all, they are also cheating the taxpayer. And the poor souls think they are underpaid at over £66,000 a year, so they will get an 11% pay rise in 2015 - although everyone else is supposed to be happy with 1% until the economy recovers. And let's not forget that many MPs also have other jobs, or directorships, so they're not exactly on the breadline to start with.

As I said, I don't hold with benefit fraud, but everything that Iain Duncan Smith is doing is not making an impression on the real fraudsters, who claim for fictitious husbands,wives and children, or set up fake identities to claim benefits. It's relatively easy to catch a guy like Nigel Hadley, who has taken £26,000 he's not entitled to, then force him to sell his house to pay the money back. He has six months to repay the money, or he'll be sent to jail.

Yet a Somali illegal immigrant who has systematically defrauded UK taxpayers to the tune of £91,000 by using false identities will not have to repay the money, and will not face a custodial sentence. The story is here, if you have the stomach for it. Both of these people have defrauded the benefits system, yet the guy who kept his Spanish property quiet is made an example of, while the illegal immigrant won't have to pay back a penny and won't even be deported.

And of course, IDS and George Osborne are also keen to bring in the Temperature Test to strip British pensioners in Spain who have paid into the system all their working lives of the Winter Fuel Allowance. Remember that this payment was only brought in in the first place to pad out the meagre British pension.

I have a suggestion - though I don't suppose anybody at the DWP is remotely interested, because it just might be a fair system. Take back the WFA from all but the poorest pensioners, but allow the rest to enjoy their retirement without having to pay tax on their pensions, or on any investment income they may have. After all, we've already paid income tax on the money in our savings accounts, because it's come from income during the working years which was, of course, taxed. So in effect, you're taxing us twice for being responsible and setting aside money for a rainy day.

Pensions are maybe a bit more complex, since you do get tax relief on contributions to pension funds. However, in the case of Civil Servants, their so-called 'non contributory' pensions are funded by holding back part of their salary increase. Or at least that was the case when my husband was a Civil Servant - it may be different now. And in the case of the State Pension, all those who draw it have paid National Insurance contributions all their working lives, or their spouses have paid on their behalf.

The Government is not giving handouts to pensioners - we're just getting something back for what we've paid in over the years. Unlike people who go onto benefits straight from school and have no intention of ever working, or people who come in from other countries with the express intent of living off the state and sending cash back home.

Maybe it's time to stop labelling almost everyone who has made the move to Spain as benefit cheats and moaning pensioners. Yes, there are fraudsters who need to be caught and punished, and yes, there are pensioners - and younger people, for that matter  - with an inflated sense of entitlement.

However, the vast majority of us just want to enjoy the years we have left in the place that is most beneficial to our health and wellbeing. And lots of us are still contributing to the UK economy, because we're still paying UK taxes, since we're on government pensions which are paid - and taxed - in Sterling.

Go after the real benefit frauds, and stop persecuting the expats in Spain. The £5 million which Iain Duncan Smith is so buoyant about is a tiny drop in an enormous ocean. And while we're on that subject, how much of that £5 million did it cost to bring IDS and his entourage over to Spain to have yet another pop at the Brits in Spain? Just asking!

Meanwhile, the UK's borders - and benefit system - remain wide open to whoever fancies a trip to England's Green And Pleasant Land. And the real benefit frauds are laughing all the way to the bank.

 



Like 3




22 Comments


marcbernard said:
Friday, February 28, 2014 @ 9:53 AM

Whilst on the whole I agree with your post, there are two corrections to make. Firstly the pension contributions made during working life are in fact not from taxed income, since these were tax deductable, were they not? Secondly (a very minor point!) why do you pay your tax in a Scottish Town (Stirling) when you should pay it in Sterling (sorry!)
As for IDS, he is a hateful man with a savage plan.


SandrainAlgorfa said:
Friday, February 28, 2014 @ 9:58 AM

@marcbernard Love the pun! Maybe I didn't make myself completely clear regarding the pension - I'll go in and edit the post. Because he has a Civil Service pension, Tony didn't contribute to it, but they did hold back part of his salary increase each year, so it wasn't completely non-contributory.


lifeinvejer said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 7:43 AM

I am sorry but fraud is fraud whoever is doing it. I dont see any difference in who it is and it's good to see that uk gov is tasking action to get money back from those with assets snd getting them sold. Your blog sounds more of a dig at the person not the issue. People in Spain are it could be argued even worse as they are not even in the uk while they are stealing money


seatrojo said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 9:21 AM

I.D.Smith has to stop the heating allowance to expats no matter where we live,how on earth is he going to fund the politicians pay increases otherwise.The polticians pay increase is as much as my govt pension !.
We pensioners are a major force,maybe we should all head back home and claim all we are entitled to,it'll be a damn site more than the heating allowance.
After so many years living abroad ( I think 5 years , Or I guess some smart person will correct that ) we are not allowed to vote in England,so why are they allowed to nick our heating allowance.I thought joining the EU gave us the freedom to live where we wanted ?
One final note,if you live abroad you have to pay your taxes to that country,how can you live in spain and not pay taxes in spain but pay in the UK,I dont,I live here and pay here.


JWhite said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 9:43 AM

The biggest laugh of course is the benefits that are paid to immigrants who come to the UK and they can even claim for their kids back home (imaginery or not!). Fraud is fraud as has been said but the main reason people are struggling is the pitiful amount of UK state pension paid to people both here and if they move to Spain (one of the lowest in Europe!). My husband pays tax also on his tiny private pension but because I didn't pay my full stamp and paid married women's stamp, I receive half of a state pension but he still pays tax ! They are talking about allowing people to transfer their personal allowance between couples and I hope they do (even though the amount is paltry). As for taking away bus passes and WFA which is what the Tories plan if they win the next election (from all the hints they drop), they should be stopping benefits being paid to people who have paid nothing into the system first ! As I said, I get a reduced pension because I didn't pay enough stamps so why do people who come here and have paid nothing in get anything at all? Benefits should be paid based on contributions and then there would be plenty of money to pay to people who have paid in all their lives.


HAWKINGS111 said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 10:04 AM

Seatrojo i am not the smart person, Ha, but you can vote in the UK elections up to 15 years after leaving the UK. For myself, why bother. We left the UK to get away from all the crap only to participate in a different sort of crap, but hey, at least the weather is great all year round.


seatrojo said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 10:45 AM

HAWKINGS111,,,,thanks i knew somebody would know the correct number of years...but I think we get cold weather here on the costa blanca at this time of the year.Must admit though,I cant see.myself returning to live in in England anytime soon..


JWhite said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 11:14 AM

Seatrojo, there is nothing to return to, we don't have a country any longer, we are a arm's length state of the EU federal superstate and all our laws come from Brussels but then you would know about that as presumably all Spain's laws come from Brussels (lol) !

I have to admit I wish we were more like France and put two fingers up to the EU laws we don't like and ignore but we are English of course and it is not cricket not to obey the laws. Pity Cameron & Co and all the rest don't think like the governments of the rest of the EU, you know, look after your own first and to hell with everyone else.

My daughter is just about to leave the UK for the Costa Del Sol and I have to admit that the draw of Spain is becoming more and more acute when she has actually moved there at the end of April. We sold our apartment in Costa Blanca because we couldn't afford to run 2 places when we had retired and we wanted to keep our property in the UK, but more and more I am thinking of just renting it out here in the UK and moving over with her to rent there. At least we would have the sunshine in amongst all the depression of belonging to the EU (lol).


jokamac said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 11:37 AM

Seatrojo, if you have a government pension i.e. civil service, forces, police etc you have to pay the tax on it in the UK there is no choice in where you pay it


moosh said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 11:47 AM

A benefit cheat is a benefit cheat it doesnt matter who they are I never trust anything I read in the Daily Mail either,its the most racist paper in the UK.However if the Daily Mail and their UKIP heroes get their way and the UK leaves the EU where does that leave us OAP,s in Spain,the free health service would finish so a lot of us would have to move back to UK,that would flood the NHS,plus all the extra benefits we could claim would cost the country far more than the immigrants they worry about.


JWhite said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 12:05 PM

Moosh, have you been back to the UK recently ? The NHS is on its knees. I wouldn't worry about free healthcare in the UK as it probably won't exist in a few more years with our open borders. As for the change in circumstances for expats in Spain, I hate to be churlish but isn't that a risk you take when you move to another country? We certainly considered all that when we were considering retiring to Spain. Governments change, policies change and the possibility of the UK leaving the EU has been on the cards for 20 yrs or more, so you have to consider things will change at some point when you go to another country surely.





christinejoyce said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 12:12 PM

As usual a post of this nature stirs up comments ranging from pensions to winter fuel. Bottom line they have caught a number of benefit cheats, frankly I don't care where they live as long as they are caught. I refuse to fund their lifestyles. My stance in winter fuel, give it those who need it, in the UK. Your temp on the costa blanca hasn't hit single figures all winter, mind you it rarely has in the south east if the UK either.


JWhite said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 1:28 PM

If there were any balance between EU countries in the receipt of benefits, Spain would pay a Summer air conditioning allowance considering that the elderly may be in danger of heat exposure but of course Spain is far too behind in its thinking to offer that. As it is, it is for this reason alone (the complete inbalance of benefits in the various EU countries) which causes resentment and anger when "free movement of people" offers them the chance to get more generous benefits if they move to a more advanced economy as they do in the UK without paying a penny piece in, or to continue receiving their generous benefits when they move to a more 3rd world country. For example, if a British citizen moves to Poland with their 3 or 4 kids, who in their right mind would change to draw their child benefit from Poland when it is just £4 per month for each child. They will continue to draw it from the UK which obviously is wrong but the UK government will never know how many and does not know how many it is keeping both elsewhere in the EU as well as at home.

No wonder our benefits system is under threat of collapse! The EU is a joke and the UK has to leave for its very survival, I believe that many other EU countries will follow when they realise they will have to stump up the £55million per day shortfall when the UK dumps this outragious unregulated institution. Otherwise the UK is headed fast back to Dickensian days.

Until all countries offer the same level of benefits and public services there should be no free movement of people as it is a false premise that people freely want to move to a 3rd world economy where wages are a 6th of the more affluent countries and benefits are almost non-existent.


moosh said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 1:37 PM

The problem with the Little Englanders who want to build fortress UK is they havent really thought about the consequences if Britain were to leave the UK.90% of all manufacturing in the UK is foreign owned,they are there as it is part of the single european market,how long do you think they would stay if they found themselves outside of that market?Honda and Toyota have already made the threat that they would move to mainland europe.There are 2.7 million British working in europe and around 3 million pensioners,how many would return to flood all the services like housing and the NHS?The only foreigners that could be kicked out are europeans not commonwealth citizens like Indians and Pakistanis.


moosh said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 1:38 PM

Sorry that should have been if Britain were to leave the EU


JWhite said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 2:09 PM

Much of our exports are now going to China and India etc. and there are many more of these markets opening up all the time now that the world is a "smaller" place. To think that the universe revolves around the EU is a small minded interpretation of the "free market" ideal. Many British people reside in other countries, millions I would guess in Australia and New Zealand alone let alone Canada, not to mention Thailand and many other countries outside of the EU, pensioners there do not continue to receive higher benefits or continuing benefits when they leave the EU yet seem to survive without the so called "crutch" of the EU. The world is a big place and to limit your horizons to the European Markets as you are doing is a little backward I feel.


JWhite said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 2:40 PM

By the way Moosh, don't believe all you are told by our government who seek to keep us in the EU purely for their own selfish career agenda (moving onto the next even bigger gravy train in Brussels). All these trading partners in Europe they keep telling us will desert us if we leave the EU is pure scaremongering. We sell much more to Germany than we buy and I can't see Germany as well as any others we trade with in the EU, refusing our business. Sales are sales and money is money to them, whether we are in or out of the EU.

This is what really shocks me, the level of brainwashing that has taken place (much to the government's delight !), that is now making people live in fear of standing alone without the EU. You would never guess that Britain invaded half of the free world at one time or another with so many frightened people now clutching at the garments of Brussels who they feel they need to hold onto to survive. The last time there was brainwashing on this scale, communism ruled half of the developed world with the usual capitalist masters at the top of the tree laughing their heads off in their palaces - truly frightening.


seatrojo said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 3:40 PM

Christinejoyce,,,,,how can you comment on the temperature in another country if you live in england...The weather here on the costa blanca has hit single figures since last year,as people say,dont believe all you read,when you have lived here you can have an unbiased opinion...a true one.


seatrojo said:
Saturday, March 1, 2014 @ 3:43 PM

Jocomac...you missed the point,my response was to the person who stated that he lives in spain and pays taxes in the UK,,,
The law is quite clear,you should pay tax to the country you live in...he lives in spain he stated,so he should pay spanish tax not Uk tax..


jokamac said:
Sunday, March 2, 2014 @ 8:54 AM

Seatrojo, I live in Spain and pay tax in the UK not because I want to but because I have no choice. I have a government pension so I can't choose to pay tax in the country where I live UK law says I have to pay it in the UK The law is clear on that.


wiganian said:
Monday, March 3, 2014 @ 3:01 PM

Seatrojo, I also live in Spain & pay tax in UK, tax is paid at source so if you are in receipt of a UK pension you will pay tax in the UK as it is classed as UK income.


lifeinvejer said:
Monday, March 3, 2014 @ 3:41 PM

If you are tax resident in Spain for the calendar year ie more than 6 months in the year you are liable to pay tax in Spain on earned income wherever it arises in the world. However, if tax is deducted in the uk you claim it back from HRMC by completing the relevant HMRC forms.

Certain government pensions in the uk are not treated as taxable in Spain so you may well me paying too much tax.

The bottom line with tax in Spain is that if you clock up more than 183 days in total in the calendar year you become a fiscal resident and liable to file income tax returns for those years in Spain. It's not optional and the point is you have to declare that position to HMRC who apply the principle of double taxation relief ie you only pay tax on income in one country and that country is where you are tax resident. Deductions of tax in the other country are claimable if you suffered a tax deduction at source.

Unfortunately many many people do not realise this. In my expeience of Spain and infringements, you run a big risk of a hefty fine with no wriggle room. I suggest if you are unsure on how to sort this out that you look on the internet for a tax advisors who will happily sort this out. It should not cost a fortune but the Spanish fines may well be a fortune.


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