completion dates and kitchens

This is a copy of a posting today on the Vista Hermosa site, which is another Promaga developement just down the road towards La Linea.


"I  got an email today from my lawyer stating that he had received a letter from Promaga stating that kitchens would not  be included in the apartments.
in compensation they will give two options
1)   a 6,000 Euro reduction on the price of the property
or
2)   they will assemble the kitchens by express request of the clients, this assembly will be done once the clients have completed the purchase of the property.
they also state that the First Occupation License has been granted.
and finally they say they want completion in  two weeks.

i will be telling my lawyer that i will not complete until the kitchens are finished and i hope everyone else takes the same  position.
it seems clear to me that they have not got the money to complete the kitchens, anyone care to comment on the legal situation regarding this.
i was shown two different showhouses and was told the kitchens came fully fitted, has anybody got this in writing or a brochure?"


Does anyone think this will also apply to Alta Vista, as the kitchens appear to be still non existant, and have been for over a year.

Has anyone completed yet, and received the keys.

Yes we have completed and have the keys, I believe a number of others have as well.  

Congratulations Trevor on obtaining your keys.

My posting regarding the kitchens I knew didn't apply to you as you are in Block 1, which I knew were the first and possibly the only ones to have the kitchens fully fitted.

Congratulations once again.

Dave

 I have recently completed the purchase of 112 Alta Vista and am flying down to Spain after Christmas to collect the keys from my attorney and visit the property for the first time.  Based on what I am hearing, I am dreading it.  I bought off plan in 2004 for 325,000 euros and doubt if the apartment could sell now for 200,000.  Peter Olofson

 As a follow up to my earlier post, I finally arrived in Spain today to take possession of 112 Altavista.  As of this writing I have been unable to get into the apartment because they didn't give my attorneys the key to the building, only the key to the apartment .  Hopefully I will finally get to see the place tomorrow, having completed my purchase in September 2008.  One major issue of concern, however, is that there is no proper access road to the property.  The access road will not be completed until Phase 2 is completed (Mansions 7 thru 13).  Neveretheless the local municipality issued a licence to occupy thereby forcing us to complete the purchase.  In the meantime, and because of the present economic climate, the developer, has decided to slow roll the remaining phases thereby effectively leaving the place looking like a building site.  This will likely make it very difficult to rent any of the apartments at Altavista as holiday lets--there is so much supply that doesn't involve a building site, why would any family chose to vacation on a building site?  None of this is good news, although I have been told that all the units that have been completed at Altavista do have fully fitted kitchens. In summary and based on my experience, I would NEVER recommend anyone to ever buy property off plan--even if the developer is solvent and reputable--too many unknowns.  The whole 5 year experience to date has been miserable and costly.  

Hi Mustfly:

This just confirms my suspicions about Promaga. It is such a pity that the Promaga Cowboys web site appears not to be functioning.

I have heard that the apartments that have been completed are still running on builders electricity, on your visit tomorrow (Thursday) perhaps you will be able to confirm or deny.

 It is true, the apartments at Altavista are running off builder's electricity and water.  That's not so bad as it doesn't cost the owners, but at the moment nobody is there--all the apartments are closed up, so it isn't really costing Promaga much.  Today they started fixing more snagging items.  They had done most of them following my May 2007 visit but there were also some new ones.  On the whole I was satisfied with the interior of the apartment and everything appears to be working. However, because of the access road issue and the fact that everything is very "raw" at the moment, particularly the landscaping, it will be impossible to rent out this year. Next year should be OK and hopefully the world economy will have improved by then and there will be some renters. However, if Phases 4, 5 and 6 are still incomplete (which they probably will be) there is still the issue of the access road passing through a very unattractive building site--do renters in Spain put up with that? Finally, I have to say that Promaga's sales rep Maria was very helpful and pleasant and is going out of her way to help and get things done--as is Andres the building supervisor.  We should all keep our fingers crossed that Promaga survive the current downturn!

On the furniture side, I am looking at packages from Imperial and Obelisk.  Does anyone else have any good recommendations?  So far I am impressed with both Imperial and Obelisk.  Imperial now operates only out of Migas. Obelisk has a good Mexican package for as little as €8,195.  Renters do not pay any more rent for expensive furniture!  That much I have found out.

Finally, my blood pressure has gone up on this trip!!  I took a whole bunch of pictures today of the development-- if anyone is interested, let me know and I will email to you.  In particular I took pics of the incomplete access road. 

 

Hi

We are buying Apartment 214 at Alta Vista and I can confirm that the Kitchen was put in back in September when we were originally asked to complete.

When we found out that the site could not get a proper electrical supply our lawyers advised us that we should not complete. We have taken their advice (Promaga had connected the builders supply for when we visited and all seemed to be working)

We wonder what the electrical supply position would be if Promaga went bust and they lost the builders supply? I bet for the owners to get a proper connection sorted would cost a fortune. So on that basis we feel that we are doing the right thing by holding out.

I have not spoken to our lawyers for a little while but when I visted the site in December as others have said there seemed to be nothing new done since the summer.

I do not think that we are likely to be able to rent out this year as I suspect that the development will still be on a go slow and with the Euro rate being as it is customers could be thin on the ground.

Steve

 Steve:

 

Not sure you are getting good legal advice.  My attorney says you are more secure and better off completing.  The electrical issue is I believe minor.  It is all ready for metering and that is done by the utility company, not Promaga.  It is already hooked up.  The faster everyone completes the less likely Promaga is going to have financial problems and the quicker we get the community formed. If purchasers are slow rolling it, that puts the whole development at risk.  I am moving furniture in at the end of the month.  The quicker we occupy and make the place looked lived in the quicker we can rent out and reap the value of our investment.  That is my view and understanding.  I would welcome other views.  Does anyone know how many people have closed their purchases apart from me and the Judds?

OK--after 5 days here I think I now have facts, which I have gathered from my attorney and had corroborated by other owners.  It is not unusual in Spain for phased developments to operate off developer's electricity and water for several months--and in some cases more than a year.  In fact that is good for the unit owners because they get the utilities free at the beginning.  Eventually the utility companies will inspect and issue a "Bolitin" which certifies that everything has been installed in accordance with EU and other applicable regulations. After issuance of the Bolitin the utility company can enter into direct contracts for supply with the individual unit owners. It is very unlikely that Promaga have failed to instal in accordance with the regulations.  The electricity and water are currently working fine! I tested everything today and experienced no problems.

As I said in my previous post, it is very much in the interest of all unit owners to complete their purchases and furnish and live in their units, or rent them out.  It is far riskier delaying closing because in the (hopefully) unlikely event of Promaga going bust, owners will be at the mercy of the administrator and may never get title and may never recover their deposits under the bank guarantees. 

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but the old adage "possession is 9/10th's of the law" applies as much in Spain as it does everywhere else. Any lawyer advising owners not to close because the "bolitin" has not yet been issued is probably being super conservative to cover his or her own ass.  From everything I have learned, it is absolutely not in the interest of Altavista, owners or Promaga for unit owners to delay closing.  Although I am not a Spanish lawyer, I am an English solicitor and California attorney and have practised law since 1968.  I know only too well how lawyers too frequently provide very conservative advice which often is not very practical and not necessarily in the interests of the people who are party to the transaction.

Obviously everyone has to make their own decision, but I strongly encourage everyone to talk to others who have purchased units off plan in Spain. And bear in mind that nothing is risk free, but title (and therefore possession) certainly helps! Finally, I have taken loads of pictures of Altavista in the last few days and am happy to share these.  The development is proceeding, it has not come to a grinding halt (Phases 5 and 6 have been slowed down), and for the most part the construction and finishes appear to be to a high standard.  Certainly it is a beautiful location and hopefully we will all reap the fruits of our investment for years to come.

 

I visited my apartment in block three in december to carry out snagging,only to find there was still water coming through my ceiling from the roof terrace above,there was also considerable problems with dampness in the stair wells and a number of the units which it appeared that promaga had a squad constantly painting over,the lift doors looked like they had been painted because of rust due to the dampness,that is aside from problems with electricity and access.Has anyone else noticed the damp problems?