Multicurrency Mortgages

Hi,

Hugh & Doreen (53) phoned us last night to let us know that there is an AGM called by the builders on 28 June at 10am. Any issues wanting answers to  can be raised then.

Regards

Bernie

Hi everyone and thanks Bernie for the further information regarding the Builder calling for an AGM.

Regarding the Builder requesting an AGM on the 28th June I am not sure what the Builder has outstanding regarding Incomplete hard and soft landscape works around our community as firstly I haved not had the opportunity to fully examine the external groundworks plans and secondly, we will not arrive until 9th July.I would have thought if the Builder wants to complete on the site the community property owners would need to confer to draw up a list of incomplete works and any Deficiences (snags) that require fixing.This before the community owners agree the builders are complete and they leave the site.The pool in particular requires looking at what was on the Town Hall approved drawings as to what has been provided ?

Also, who would know what the situation is regarding how many of us including our property at No 36 have not completed yet and de-snagged.Should the meeting not be called by the buiilder when we have all completed to give all of the owners the opportunity to attend or be represented at the meeting? Also how many residents that have completed may not be aware of the meeting called for the 28th June? I check our excellent  message board on a regular basis and would not have been aware of the meeting otherwise.There must be a large proportion of holiday owners and residents who do not use the message board and are perhaps out of Spain at the moment.I wonder if these particular owners have been notified and are aware of this meeting ?

Best Regards Meantime,

Andy

Hello everyone,

 re this AGM, my understanding is that  a person is to be appointed to act as liason between community and builders in anticipation of the builders handing over and the residents / owners accepting the site. Obviously if any of us have concerns then they should be raised at this meeting, if people are unable to attend then post any current concerns on the message board and we will raise them on behalf of all, I am awaiting receipt of an agenda, (Hugh at 51 has posted this to me).

I am hoping to either arrange a flight out for the meeting, or I have a relative who will be out there on the date, he will take a letter out for me and pass it on to Hugh in order for concerns / issues to be raised. 

We as a community can refuse to accept the site if it does not comply suitably, I am informed that the adjoining site did do just that in respect of the pool and the pool was then put right.

Mick S.

Oops!! Sorry Mick & Christine. I seem to have handed your apartment over to Hugh & Doreen.

They do of course live at 51 & not 53.

Bernie

Hi again everyone,

thanks Mick for your response noted.

I would certainly be cautious in signing off for acceptance of  the site without firstly objectively carrying out a full external inspection as to approved the plans / drawings and specifications  and advising Golf Invest in writing to have the outstanding and defective items completed first.I was there on the 11th May and there were still major outstanding items such as pavements to complete in addition to the pool problem, which I have also previously commented on.

As to the apartment blocks - The under garages  Reinforced Concrete structure (Concrete support columns (Stilts) and Beams) that supports the apartment blocks requires extensive making good where there is clearly voided (large and small holes) and grout loss (not fully compacted concreting works) evident to the concrete throughout.The strength of the structure I have no doubt will not be  impaired but if proper repairs are not attended to now this could in the future lead to chloride attack problems to the steel reinforcement, below the voided surface, which in turn through time would lead to rusting decay of the reinforcement.What the builder has done is painted over the voids without firstly cutting out the worst voids to solid concrete (and filling the smaller voids) then making good with a proprietry concrete repair material. When I discussed with this problem with the  Builder's Foreman in February he had acknowledged that  further work was no doubt required.From my experience I would say It would be best that we agree on proper repairs to the voids first then once completed say 2 coats of external masonry paint (such as Sandtex or Dulux Weathershied) throughout all the apartment blocks supporting structures. 

As I mentioned unfortunately we will not arrive until the 9th July however I would be more than willing to assist the other members of our community in conducting  a full  site survey (with approved plans available) identifying outstanding and workmanship items for the Builders urgent attention.This survey would be independent for protection of  the interests of our community and of course completely free of charge.  

Best Regards Meantime,

Andy Robertson (MRICS, MCIOB, FICW)

hello everyone

Very interested to read all the threads about the AGM. We go out there on Thurs (21st) but unfortunately return to UK on 27th. We are no building experts but agree that there are some issues that need resolving before the hand-over. It sounds an excellent idea for Andy to do a survey when he gets over there, but in that case we need a postponement of the AGM until after that - will we be able to get the builders to delay it? Who from the community does the final sign-off of acceptance?

We will gladly add our voice to the debate either when we are there next week or via email from the UK.

Regards

Paul and Caroline (No 58)

Hello all,

I received correspondence today re the AGM.

The papers are from 'adfinsur', administracion de fincas (housing administrators), dated 11/6/07.

Quote - In accordance with article 16 of Horizontal Property law and by indications of the property developer Company Luido Constructores, I summon you to the 1st Montesol Villas2 owners general meeting 10am 28th June 2007 in the Community show house. The agenda of the day will be the following:

Formal constitution of the Community of Owners.

Appointment of President, Vice President and Secretary-administrator of the Community

Approval of the Ordinary Budget of the annual exercise

Approval of swimming pool rules

Other issues of general interest

----------------------------------------------------

It then goes on to request that anybody unable to attend, delegates their representation, by completion of a delegation form which must be signed and in possession of your representative at the meeting.

--------------------------------------

DELEGATION

Mr/Mrs____________________________, owner of the property_______________________________, authorises by means of this document

Mr/Mrs _________________________________ to represent and to cast our vote in the 1st Montesol Villas2 owners general meeting that will be held on June 28th 2007.

                                                                                       _______________________2007

                                                                                   Signature:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is an e-mail address for this property administrators company: info@adfinsur.com 

The above is the content of the papers, there does not appear to me to be a handing over of the site included, to me (no expert in the subject by any means) this does look like an administrator is putting things in place to have the community running smoothly prior to the builders handing over the site

Hope this helps everyone,

Mick S (no 53)

Hi all,

Have scanned documents mentioned and can e-mail exact copies to you if required.

This is of course in preparation of the builder handing over which wasn't going to happen immediately at the AGM. The meeting is to decide on a good few issues which needs sorting out but obviously anything we can think of thats need doing in our eyes should be mentioned as most people aren't out there full time and indeed cant get time off work etc at the drop of a hat so the short notice of this meeting is a bit annoying.

Regards

Bernie

Hi again,

yes Berni and Mick this is not to be Final Handing over of the site therefore we all have a little time to respond in due course.

Our local Solicitor has just advised on the procedure leading to handing over of  an  Urbanisation which has has two distinct phases i.e. firstly, with the Notary / Land Registry and secondly with the Council - as follows:

First Phase Notary / Land Registry:

1. Builder notifies the Project Architect that they consider they are complete.If the Architects agree then  the Architects issues the  Certificate of FInal Building (CFB) Possibly our Outstanding / Snags Lists I would have thought should come out at this point, i.e. before the Architects application for the CFB ?
2. The CFB & a copy of the Building Licence (issued prior to start of constructions) are then taken to the College of Architects of the County, where the CFB is stamped.
3. The stamped copy of the CFB is then taken to the Notary along with a copy of the Builders 10 year insurance warranty where the builder grants a declaration of a New Building Declaration Deed ( NBCD) This deed includes all the residents properties contained within the urbanisation, with their own description details and the Community Of Owner's General Rules.
4. The NBCD is then taken to the Land Registry where the reference number for the plot (where the Urbanisation is located) changes.A new reference number is then given to each owners property. At this point it is generally considered that the Builder can start final completions with each purchaser of property within the urbanisation.

Second Phase - with the Council:

1. Starts with the NBCD being taken to the Council where the Architects and the Council check that the property accomplished the Building Licence and if agreed Council issue the Certificate of Habitation.

Considering the above my Solicitor has mentioned that the AGM called for by the Builder for the 28th does not mean that the Builder is about to leave the site but that the Community Owners start working (see item 3 above) My Solicitor has also advsied that until all the properties  are complete, the Builder will be considered as the owner of the properties ? I think what is meant here is that until all of the above process is completed ?

If someone else also wants to cross check or advise on the above for accuracy.?

If all is as above or otherwise would envisge that the Builder cannot progress until they have the Community formed and a copy of our General Rules. 

As I also have from our Solicitor the Builder cannot complete unless all the properties have finally completed.

We may  therefore have a little time on our hands to draw up full outstanding / deficiency lists but I would have thought possibly before the Architect issues the CFB ?

I believe the AGM would be a good time for somone to ask if the Architect has commenced his final inspections prior to seeking the CFB and that we would wish to draw attention to any outstanding works and major deficiences prior to the Architect applying for the CFB. Remember the Architect of course may well have been appointed by the Builder !! 

As mentioned I will certainly have a good look around on our arrival at No 36 on the 9th July.If any other community member wants to join me - perhaps a couple of beers thereafter ! !      

All the very best meantime,

Andy

I heard of the AGM from my son who is currently staying at my place otherwise I would have only seen it via the message board. I will be arriving for a couple of weeks on 13th July and will welcome the opportunity to discuss the position with those who attend. In the meantime, I like a lot of others will have to rely on those of you who will be in attendance. All I can say is that I will support any decisions you take.

best wishes

Mike

Andy, you are obviously well informed in the construction industry, thanks very much for your information.

I have not arranged travel yet but hope to get out for the meeting, I will ensure that your information is presented at the meeting (be it in person or through Hugh if I do not get there). 

Are you interested in the roles of President, vice President or secretary  ?

 During the summer I am going to be out there from 30th July til 23rd August,  if you are out then the inspection and beers sounds good.

Mick S. 

Hello all,

              I am flying out on Wednesday 27th to attend meeting on 28th, if anybody wishes points to be raised or delegation papers returned I am willing to do this, contact me by post on this site or private message.

I will be returning late on friday 29th and will provide an update during that weekend.

Mick S. (No 53) 

Thanks for that Mick.

We have posted our papers to you for you to take out on our behalf.

Once again many thanks and look forward to hearing from you when you get back

Paul & Bernie

thanks Mick

I will post the papers to your Spanish address

best wishes

Mike

Hello All,

An update on the meeting.  I will not go into too much detail as you will be receiving the minutes in due course, however ;  1. Formal Constitution of the Community of Owners was agreed, this does not at all relieve the Builder Luido of his outstanding responsibility for the completion of outstanding work, it should give the community a stronger voice.

2. Appointments; President - Hugh at No 51.   Vice President (Villas) - Pedro at No 25.  Vice President (apartments) - Jim at No 52.  Secretary/administrator, is Laura of adfinsur, the company  who called the meeting, this company will take minutes of our meetings, translate and forward to all, act as treasurer and represent community in dealings with other organisations. It was also decided to create two other posts, that being our own Secretary - Lorraine at No 69 and our own Treasurer - Dave also at No 52, this was proposed in order to provide our own representatives to compare notes / findings / best practice with 'adfinsur'.

3.Approval of Ordinary Budget; This is to cover the costs of running the Community. Maintenance / Professsional Services / Insurance / Utilities and other expenses. We are also required to have a Contingency Fund which is 5% of the Budget.  Total is approx 22,000 euros per year, divided between the Residents. This caused a little stir as the Villas are to pay more than the top floor apartments who then pay more than the lower apartments ( a similar means as UK Council Tax)

Running out of space so will continue in a second post  (see next)

AGM Continued,

3. (cont)  The fiqures used to divide the community charges amongst the types of property are taken from the Title Deeds, when each property was purchased the deeds did include a fiqure explaining what percentage of the community charges would have to be paid. The charges are not divided equally, it is based on the size of your property just like in good old blighty.  My understanding prior to leaving was that - Only if the whole community vote unanimously to change this can it be considered.

4. Swimming Pool Rules were agreed and aim to provide a safe and enjoyable recreation area which will not cause undue inconvenience or annoyance to residents, Children are to be allowed time from 10am -12noon, Sundays and Wednesdays to be exempt from other normal restrictions. No li-los, inflatables, balls, loud music, alcoholic drink or food and no animals within pool area. 

Whilst on the subject of rules, Hugh provided a list of site rules, which was reasonable, Residents do not park in the visitor spaces to east of pool, no parties after 11.30pm, no washing, towels etc to hang over balconies, any drying to remain within confines of property.

A meeting was to take place the following day with Mayor, Builder, Developer, adfinsur and our newly appointed representatives at Town Hall to move things along, roads access, pool, certifiacte/licences for site.  I left for airport before hearing of outcome. 

One other thing which was mentioned; Luido, the builder is asking as a goodwill gesture for residents to contribute to the cost of the builders supply of Electricity and Water (approx 27 euro per month was mentioned). The builder is obligated to provide such utilities, therefore we are not required to pay.

A couple of people actually living on site suggested that we agree, it was decided not to respond just yet and to inform Luido that we may consider this possibly upon resolution of the pool issue.

The pool is not in use as yet, the adjacent site did have non slip tiles surrounding the pool in place and a far better finish completed, prior to the site being accepted.

The keyboard is now quite warm, I think that I have updated you on most items and that'll do for now, I will post some photos soon.

Mick S

Thanks Mick,

You have gone to alot of time and trouble to type all this out. Much Appreciated!

I know you say we will receive the minutes in due course but can I just clarify about the pool. I take it  that kids will be able to use the pool exclusively 10-12 on sundays & wednesdays and these sessions will mean they can use lios,balls and have a good splash about??. but of course can use it all other times following the rules.  What age limit has been set that children who can swim can go swimming on their own?

Look forward to seeing photos

Regards

Paul & Bernie

Hello Bernie,

the rules are not clear on the age; Quote, Very young children must be supervised by a family member at all times whilst in the childrens pool area.  Children under 12 must not be allowed in the adult pool area even with swimming aids.

The mention of the pool being for the exclusive use of kids sunday and wednesday am, would probably be more acurate if it was worded kids have precedence during these hours.  

The rules are a good first draft but would appear to have room for improvement and  may need to be more specific in certain areas, I am sure that this can be done amicably as our representatives are reasonable people.

Mick S