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All,
Someone mentioned in an earlier thread the topic of the community set-up and so forth. I think we should start discussing this topic a bit more actively at this stage now that people are starting to move into CDA. We just got a list of the community articles from the developer. I did not spot anything too outlandish at first glance. We will need to elect a Junta, complete with El Presidente and cohorts.
One question that I would like to poll you all on at this point is the topic of community charges. What are your estimations of the monthly cost for the community upkeep and maintenance? How can we find out exactly what the costs will be?
In the completion breakdown that our lawyer sent to us, she included a cost "Community starting quote = 947 euro". Does anyone else have this cost in their completion breakdown? I was a bit surprised to see this cost pop up, even though we are well aware of the proposed community costs. I certainly hope that the monthly community cost is a bit lower. Well, a lot lower.
Does anybody have any insights into this topic?
Patrick
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Well, we have done a bit more research, and here are our findings regarding the "community starting quote". For anyone who already knows all of this information, forgive my ramblings:
1. Every member of the community has to pay into a community reserve fund when you buy a property on the site.
2. For Los Iris, the reserve fund has been set at 150,000 euros.
3. The amount that each member pays into the fund is set by the size and location of your apartment.
4. In our case, our percentage to buy into the community is 0.6312%, which translates into 947 euros.
5. This cost is a one-time hit and is not directly related to the monthly community charge.
6. This cost is additional to the cost of the property.
I would still like to know how the monthly community charge is calculated. If anybody knows, could you post the information here please.
Thanks,
Patrick
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Thanks Patrick for your research, what size property do you own? (Just to get an idea of our own contribution level!)
We have recently visited the site and created a snagging list - hope they get the bits and pieces cleared up soon. We met Katie and Steve who are living there already and we plan to ask them to check our property over for us before we sign and pay in full!
Looking forward to meeting all the neighbours maybe in October...
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Our place is a two-bed appt on the ground floor. We have a patch of green out the back, so I daresay we have to pay a bit more of a percentage for the garden maintenance.
A bit more information: the monthly contribution to the community is based on your property percentage as well. We will only know how much our individual contributions are when we have a figure for the monthly maintenance of Los Iris. If we want maintenance to happen, pool to be cleaned, security to be in place, then we need to set up a community, get a quote from suitable service suppliers and proceed from there. Of course, it wouldn't take a great leap of imagination for Grupo C to offer these very services because they are doing a certain amount of the services at the moment. I do not know when the critical mass point occurs when the developer stops developing and starts looking for maintenance costs. I guess it will be sooner rather than later.
Patrick
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A bit moe about the community setup and charges:
The developers will keep something in the region of 30-40% share of the community - partly because they have that many properties not sold yet! But they will have the controlling weight in any decision making and will keep this for the first 3 years.
Therefore they will start off by making most of the rules etc. Most of the rules will be for health and safety issues anyway - so we will all probably agree anyway. However, it will be interesting to see what actually happens in practice. As to costs! Well who knows?
Carol
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We have just been informed by our solicitors that our community fees for just this year are abot 2200 euros!! But this will be lower next year when our community is set up. Another thing is if you have completed then your electricity contract needs to set up by the 20th September.
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We have been informed about a similarly high community charge that the developer wants for January to July of next year. The developer is acting as the president of the community in this case. Personally, I think that we should have access to the accounts that show how these community charges are arrived at. I doubt that will change the end result, however.
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HELLO AGAIN,
We thought that the initial payment for the community was very high - apparently everyone will have had to pay the same amount (Proportionately). Our solicitor informed us it was like a setting up deposit for the community, but even she thought it was about double the most expensive of any others she had heard of! The of course we all have to pay every 6 months into the community funds. I wonder what the 'community' actually uses the money for? And yes I think we should at least be able to ask questions and see the accounts.
Has anyone else got comments to make about this topic?
Carol and Eric
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We thought the setting up cost was arbitrary as well. There was no discussion about the level of the reserve fund, just a figure set by the developer. But there is not much we can do about that at this stage.
The community uses the current charge to pay for on-going common costs such as landscaping, street lighting, cleaning the common areas, maintaining the pool and security. I would like to see the accounts of these costs so that I can understand how these high individual community charges are calculated. Extrapolating from the community charge that they want us to pay for Jan to Jul 2008, I calculate that these communal running costs are in the order of 35,000 euros a month. That seems a lot. Does anybody have any idea how we can see the accounts?
In my opinion, the sooner we have a proper community set up, the better. It is in our interest.
Patrick
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We most definetly agree that we should be able to see where our money is going. It would also seem that the developer is trying to have a hold over us for as long as possible. I think that once we have all spoken to our lawyers we need to all try and discuss our concerns with the developers.
Katie and Steve
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2.200 Euros is horrendous! I can´t even imagine where else you would pay this unless you lived in a very luxurious mansion. I quite agree, we must get a run down how they arrived to this amount.
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We recently completed our purchase at LOS IRIS and whilst at the notary office I was informed that a service or community charge had not yet been calculated but was estimated to be approximately 1,600 Euro for a 2 bedroom apartment. Carlos also said the owners would have a say in the way the community is managed and the way the money is spent.
On completion we paid 947 Euro in to the community fund which will not be used to manage the community only giving each owner a search in the community. You would then be able to recover this money from a buyer if you sell your apartment in the future. IN THE MEANTIME THIS MONEY ACCRUES INTEREST INTO THE COMMUNITY FUND!
It was explained to me that the handing over of the community would only take place once 51% of the apartments have been sold, then we would have the right to vote for an administration of our choice. In the meantime Groupo C have set up another company and appointed them as the administrator.
It is up to us the owners to make sure that our community fees are being well managed by the administrator by insisting that accounts are independently audited, insuring all services have been tendered for and the companies selected are established with bank guarantees and the correct indemnity insurance’s etc. This must be done with the co-operation of the administrator as they represent your investment.
We should first of all obtain a list of all apartments that have completed and contact each owner to establish who is living on site for all or most of the year and who like myself have purchased their apartment for occasional use or the rental market. Hopefully then someone will nominate himself or herself or be nominated by the community as the voice of the owners to deal with the administrator and the developer to ensure all the services are being provided at value for money.
Darren Wickes
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Thanks for the summing up, Darren. All our experiences seem to be adding up into a similar picture. We need to start meeting up to develop a unified strategy. It does not make sense for all of us to be asking the developer the same questions.
Patrick
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We are glad that this discussion is prooving helpful and may bring us to work together to make our community strong. We have now completed - this week, so will be coming over shortly. Look forward to meeting some neighbours then. All the best, Carol and Eric
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Is anybody around in Los Iris during the Christmas holidays? I would like to meet up and talk about the community issue if anybody else is interested. I am particularly keen on finding out who is managing the community right now and opening a channel of discussion with that party. Right now I have the uncomfortable feeling of paying serious money into a black hole, with no documentation, no receipts, no explanations. It might all be above aboard, but it is not the way that I am accustomed to doing business. I would like some transparency and accountability. Would anybody like to meet and discuss these points during the holiday period, after Christmas and before the New Year?
Patrick
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Hi Patrick, I will be around and would like to meet up. I have sent you a pm with my telephone number etc. Hopefully we will get some more people to join us. The community fees seem to be incredibly high. Mine is over 2000 Euros which you would pay for a luxury villa, so it would be interesting to know how they arrive at these figures.
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It was too short notice to get a forum together at the end of December, beginning of January, unfortunately.
However when I returned to Ireland, I did receive a notification in the post from Carlo about a meeting on 15 Feb. So, some questions in advance of this meeting, which I am planning to attend:
1. Has everybody else received a notification from Carlo about this meeting?
2. Do the residents want to have a pre-meeting the day before the Carlo meeting, so that we can prepare our position?
3. Do we have any candidates for community officers?
4. Do we need to organize voting transfers for people who cannot attend the meeting?
Patrick
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It now seems that we will not be able to attend the AGM ourselves - even though we would really like to and have issues to raise.
We intend sending our thoughts in a letter via Katie and Steve so that our views can be made known if necessary.
We feel that the initial setting up charge for the community was unusually high by area standards, and
a) would like en explanation, b) would like to seek reduction and future economies.
We are generally happy with the development, and look forward to the completion of the golf course and clubhouse.
We hope that the meeting is helpful and not just a whitewash. Sorry that we can't meet up with neighbours and share in helping to create a friendly and workable community.
Please let us know any other developments regarding Los Iris if you can.
All best wishes, Carol and eric Wenham
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