Will things ever change?

I saw the following extracts from 2 articles on another website this week:

"Spanish property prices fell by an average of just 4.3% last year, according to the official house price index prepared by the National Institute of Statistics (INE). Everyone in the business knows that average prices fell much more than that, so why is the INE publishing figures that invite ridicule and risk making foreign observers suspect that the official figures in Spain can’t be trusted?"

and

"Expats from all over Andalucia joined a demonstration last Wednesday in Malaga city to protest against property rights abuses in the region, and the demolition threats hanging over many of their homes."

Same old, same old....when are the Spanish going to realise that they cannot go on burying their heads in the sand, wake up and smell the coffee guys! Spain is in the **** and the problems go right to the heart of Govenment, as demonstrated by the above. Things will not change unless someone in a position of power has the b*lls to stand up, own up, come clean and make changes. Will that ever really happen? Will things ever change? I am not optimistic.

The problems of the past still have to be sorted and like all governments they take their time, whick is not very nice for those involved

But there have been many happy buyers who have never had a problem

Anyone coming fresh to the scene today, who takes the proper precautions as you would do buying in UK, will not find any problems

Buying Rustic/ rural properties need extra care and ' a no risk approach' but buying in residential area is safe

The quality of build is in general better ,all residential has to have solar for hot water and even the lawyers are more professional 

The agents still in business do in general now give a much better service

And just now the prices are very competitive

I would still suggest that it's buyer beware as far as any offplan puchase is concerned Rowlandsbb. You only have to read the rough justice again thread to understand the problems associated with this form of purchase as some Banks have refused to recognise Bank Guarantees, not to mention the concern that a developer could go into administration during this economic downturn, in which case you have a long, costly legal route to regain monies so long as the court administration system remains in crisis (court delays significantly compromising clients and developers "playing the legal system".)

The forum (& others)  is so full of the same old, same old!

I was just responding to "Anyone coming fresh to the scene today, who takes the proper precautions as you would do buying in UK, will not find any problems " comment.

Do you feel this is an unfair cautionary response morerosado?

Ads, I was not having a bash at you or anyone else, honestly, just thinking THIS thread is much the same as far too many others.

Oh OK !

Agree with you, More.  Already a couple of posts going about the "dangers" of buying off plan and it is getting a bit repetitive.  However, I can understand, and sympathise, with those who have been let down by the system and have never said anything else.  On the other other hand, there are over 150 house owners and 50 flat owners on my "residential estate" who all bought off plan and are all, I mean all, extremely happy with their purchases.  Some (very few) are returning to UK but this has nothing to do with the off-plan part of it, more to do with the crashing pound and missing families etc.  In fact, I would go as far to say that, in the dozen or so urbanisations around me (which were 99% sold off-plan) you would be hard pushed to find a handful of disgruntled owners. 

Just out of interest Bobaol, where was this and were these properties built by the same developer and were they delivered on time  and to good specification? Did the finished product reflect the original marketing literature?

Bloody right they did.  All on time, all completely to spec, even willing to come and make good anything you might find on snagging even after 2 years.  The specification is excellent, even down to damp courses, proper ventilation bricks where needed and correct earthing to plumbing.  People who have been living there for 4 years or more can still go to the developers offices and ask for things to be done if they find something wrong and a workman comes that very day (for example, my next door neighbour who moved in nearly 3 years ago, had a floor tile go out of alignment and they came and replaced the entire floor.  Electric and water were switched on (mains supply) before anyone was allowed to move in.  They've even stuck up a satellite dish and provide BBC1, ITV1 for the Brits, 2 German channels, 2 Russian channels, 2 Dutch channels for the other Europeans and pipe it into our homes for free. In addition to TDT.

But this is the difference.  My first purchase, a flat, was done through a UK agent who used their own solicitors (It has been posted many times before) and the builders/solicitors/agents were complete con artists.  Poor completion, using the money I paid to buy more land without paying the mortgage on the land, builders supply for water and electricity for nearly 3 years after I moved in etc etc.  It took 6 years to get this sorted and could not even sell the flat due to having no deeds despite taking the builders to court on 5 occasions.  Only, on the last court appearance when they were threatened with prison, did they pay off the land mortgage.  So I do have great sympathy with all those who were caught out and, if you look back to previous threads, will see many of us were in the same boat despite using a well known agent and going through solicitors.

For my house, I made sure we did not have a fly by night developer.  I used a developer with proper offices, not ones who operate out of a portakabin or show home.  I used an independent solicitor but, more importantly, I asked those people in the area who had already moved in what the company was like.  They all said they were excellent.  Of course, being Brits, they still find something to moan about.  For example, they complained the developer only provided one key fob for the electric gates (for free) and they didn't want to pay 20 euros for a second one.  Hah! 

Moral?  Well, there isn't one.  If, like me, you do everything you think is correct and still get caught out there is not a lot you can do about it. 

I am extremely happy with my new home.  I cannot, however, go around all the time bemoaning the fact that the system is corrupt because I am no longer affected.  I am not going to ruin my life taking on the problems of the entire world but I do sympathise with those who have been left in the lurch.  I cannot go around apologising for those in Bulgaria  (I think) who have just had to break into their own flats because a big builder took them over and refused to give them the keys.  I cannot go around apologising and feeling weary for those in the north of Cyprus whose houses have been taken away from them as they were built on land not belonging to the builders.  I cannot go around apologising and feeling the weight of the world on my shoulders for those people on a Wimpey estate just outside Gloucester whose houses have started slipping and have doors and window frames at weird angles who have just been told they will get no compensation.  Nor can I go around with heavy heart for those who have built Spanish properties to find that the land is only for agricultural purposes.  I can feel sorry for them, which I do, but please do not blame me for it as it was not my fault.

Fascinating post Bobaol. Where is this development and good to know that you are happy with your lot now?

By the way no-one blames you for others misfortune and I can't understand why you would think that way.

I think there are mistakes being made here where some of those who are happy in Spain feel angry with those who are highlighting a continuing need for reform as they mistakenly perceive them as being in denial of the positives of living in Spain, and vice versa where various comments give the impression that they too are in denial of the negative aspects to purchasing in Spain, or have unrealistic expectations for people to move on given many have been significantly financially compromised by events in Spain and unfortunately don't have the finances to move on until they gain recompense.

The irony is that the sooner effective reform is reached the better for everyone as far as I'm concerned and hopefully at that point  there won't be an us and them scenario.

hi, bobaol. good post. can you provide a link to the wimpey estate houses slipping story that you mention. i'd like to learn more about it. thanks.

Well, ads, when I posted that I was now quite happy, I got likenened to an ostrich putting my head in the sand and several comments saying that just because I did well (second time around) I was lucky but shouldn't be too happy because of all those who had lost money etc etc (that was posted several times).  I won't put the name of my developers on here but, if you read some of my other posts, they do mention where I live and it won't take the brains of an archbishop to work out which one is mine (AFAIK only two companies build in my area, brother and sister of the man who built the entire town and has recently passed away).  The following are not my words but quoted from literature and brochures:

"Ciudad Quesada is a new town, built from nothing by a man with a childhood dream.

That man was Justo Quesada Samper and his childhood dream was to build his own city where people could live together in harmony, prosper and enjoy life to the full. His dream started to become a reality in 1972 when building began in what would become the town of Ciudad Quesada - named of course after the man himself, by 1999 the dream had become a reality when Quesada opened its own Town Hall."

Bit flowery, I know, but seems to work.

And looks like I did Wimpey a disservice there as it was a Barratt estate.  Sorry Wimpey, will retract now if anyone reads this.

Hi Bobaol,

  Are you saying that Justo Quesada is not a good builder? It seems that they are very slow in dealing with problems & they don't seem to have good communications among their staffs.

No, I don't think I said he was a bad builder (well, not so good now since the poor guy passed away a couple of  months ago but I can't, for the life of me, see anything in my posts that would even allude to them not being good builders).

In fact, on the contrary, my house is with the half that went to the daughter and, if you look down a little, I have absolutely nothing but praise for them.  OK, mine was built (and bought through) Euromarina (there, I've said it now) and they have been excellent. 

You are absolutely spot-on Roybud with your post.

Spain is really in deep poo. The Government is corrupt as has the Spanish property industry been for years, no-one has the cahones to speak up and sort the mess out. Costs of buying are ridiculously high and the exchange rate makes a no, no for Brits, I doubt we have seen the bottom of the market either, there's too many 1.5 million unsold new builds we're told. Land grab and illegal builds are still a real worry.

I wish they would wake up and smell the coffee too, it's a disgrace.

Only a few agents are honestly telling it as it is but many are trying to talk it up again.

Corruption re land grab and illegal builds will prove the demise of foriegn purchase if they don't wise up, but I wonder if that bothers them, as aren't  the Spanish buying more now as opposed to foreign investors, plus isn't the emphasis shifting to the rental sector as a means to soak up the overbuild scenario? Or is the ploy, let's demolish thousands the government's sick way of compensating for their lack of regulation and greed over the years, and using foreign investors as political pawns in the process?

The government's stance of turning a blind eye to the injustices going on right now turns my stomach and is seriously blighting my opinion of  Spain, more's the pity. I wonder how many more are wising up to the realities of this shambolic state of affairs?

bobaol, I nearly bought from Euromaina in Ciudad Quesada, nice houses.
Eventually bought an apartment in Los Alcazares from the same builder and have had no problems with them. They came and snagged on the day I moved in and they are usually pretty good at fixing things when required to do so. So no complaints from me.