10000000's of questions about moving permanently to Spain.

Hello everyone, I am new around here, feeling a little bit nervous to finally actually be able to wonder if our dream will end up coming true!

We are a family of 4, My husband (Lee), me (Nat), and two sons, one of five years (Thomas) and one of five months (George). We are just starting out looking at moving to Spain, though we have absolutely no idea where to start, not even where abouts in Spain we would like to move to, this is where I am hoping I can squeeze all of your knowledge and experiences to help me out a little if I may?

The first thing that is very important to us is obviously schooling, due to commitments in the UK we will be looking to actually make the move sometime in 2009, our boys will be 7 or 8 and 2 or 3 by then. I am pretty certain that the younger one will have no trouble fitting in, learning the language etc. but I am a little concerned about our eldest, we are pretty certain that money won't allow us to send him to international private schooling, so would we be doing him a massive harm by plonking him into Spanish state schooling at that age? And if not, how, or what is the best way to research what schools are where and if they will have places for the boys to attend etc.?

Next question is exactly where should we start looking to move to? We would like somewhere that is fairly mixed nationality wise, somewhere close to the coast, I would prefer a larger town as I don't drive so I wouldn't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere all day while my husband is at work. We don't really like the idea of living in a ghost town out of season, and then not be able to move for holiday makers in season. Is all of this too much to ask for?

The next big thing is do we rent for a while before we buy, or do we jump straight in and buy and hope for the best? Where are the most expensive places to buy and/or rent, and where are the cheapest?

Is it more expensive to buy a car (I am assuming they have an equivalent of our HP type loan?) or is it easier to rent?

Exactly what are all of the day to day bills/taxes we would have to pay? How can we work out an estimate of how much this will cost us a month?

Basically, we want to move to a country we know little about, we've no idea where to start looking, but we have two years to find all of the information we need, so any advice you could give us would be great.

Thanks in advance, Nat.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

OK, so where to start.....Firstly, are you moving permanently and leaving not ties in UK, eg house, family etc?  Many people will tell you to leave a bolthole back in UK so, if it doesn't work out, you can go back.  Unfortunately, 50% of people moving abroad (Spain, France etc) who have a UK base tend to go home after 6 months.  This is because it's so easy to do so.  Those who "burn their bridges" tend to stick it out longer and, sometimes, stay permanently.  This is very subjective and will receive loads of replies, I'm sure.

Next, pick where you want to go.  If it is definitely Spain, have a look at the areas and not just from a holiday stand point.  Many places are great for holidays but become like ghost towns in the winter.  Remember, you will be there all the time.  By all means have the odd holiday to look around but my suggestion would be to rent somewhere for a week and then move somewhere else for a week.  There are many flats./villas etc up for rent in the off season for as little as 80 to 100 pounds a week.  For 4 of you, that's only 25 pound each.  You can get cheap flights and car rental meaning you can have a week somewhere for the 4 of you for around 100 pounds each.  Well worth it to check out the area and see what infrastructure is in place.  For example, do the restaurants and shops close in the winter?  How many people live there permanently (There's nothing worse than moving to an area and finding you are all alone with nowhere to go). 

Once you have picked the area (and it could be anywhere from the Costa de la Luz to the Costa Brava if you want it close to the sea) Spend a couple of weeks there and really check the place out.  There are lots of ex-pat forums and clubs where you can ask the questions you want answered, like schooling, residency, health costs etc. 

I know you have millions of questions but my advice (for what it's worth) is really check out the areas you like before you take the plunge. 

In my case, we have visited other countries, like France, Italy and Cyprus, as well as Spain.  We picked Spain because of the short flight duration, ample cheap flights and liked the area, and we have been visiting regularly for the last 10 years and bought a holiday home 5 years ago.  We have now decided on the area we want to settle down in and will be retiring there next year (or the following year depending on circumstances).  But, again, you sound a fairly young family so you don't want an area that is full of decrepit old buggers like me (actually only late 50 s but that's probably ancient to you).  You do want to pick one with a good mixture of ages and, possibly, nationalities.  You will also, I assume, be looking at working there so be warned, jobs are difficult to come by and pay nowhere near what you would expect in the UK (average family income in Spain is less than £15,000 per year which shows you why it is cheap for us  but expensive for the Spanish).  Leaving aside the main cities like Madrid and Barcelona, the average is more like €15,000 per year.

Finally, I'm not saying take 10 years to make up your mind, but at least give it a couple of years to look and decide,  In the meantime, start learning the language.  It really does make a difference and will give you the sense of having achieved something. 

All the best with your search.  I hope you make the right decision and enjoy your new life if you choose to move.  And don't listen to too much doom and gloom.  Remember, only those for whom things have gone wrong tend to write to the press, the many thousands who have made the move and love it simply sit quietly on their bums and get on with their new lives..

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

NatalieJane, I think bobaol has given you some excellent advice.  I can add a couple of bit to it...

Regarding schools, your youngest one will have no problems in a Spanish school.  At 7 or 8 they are still young enough to pick up the language quickly.  I think research shows that from about 12 years children struggle to learn a language.  So, I think both should be ok in a Spanish school.  However, I would certainly get the eldest one (and yourselves) to start doing some sort of Spanish courses NOW before moving.  It will really help. 

I only really know the Costa del Sol and here I would really recommend Estepona as a location to move to.  It's still quite Spanish but with quite a few brits here too.  The people in Estepona are generally quite friendly and the schools around there generally have a good reputation.  It's right on the coast, has some great kiddies parks and a really nice promenade to walk away the hot nights along.

I would suggest DEFINITELY rent before buying.  It's only by doing this that you will really get to know the area.  After a while you will learn about the area and where you might want to lay some roots.  I would rent for at least 6 months but ideally 11 months, which is what most long term rental contracts are done for.  You can see some long term rentals on this site at http://www.eyeonspain.com/Holiday-Rentals-Spain.aspx

To buy a car you may want to look at a long term hire as you won't get credit to buy one without being resident.  Many car hire companies do them for about about 400 - 500 euros per month for a small family car.

Regarding bills it's difficult to give an estimate really.  Maybe someone else can advise on this (I don't really check my bills very oftern....)

What I would say is that whatever amount of money you plan to need.....DOUBLE it.  There are always unexpected costs and you WILL spend more than you think, I guarantee it.

If you will be looking for work here then that is difficult.  Estepona is near Gibraltar and many expats in the area do work in Gib.  Maybe worth checking it out.

Best of luck with it all.

Justin

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Natalie Jane!

Welcome to EOS!

As you can tell by Bobaol's reply to you, the members here give their all to help you!

His response has been very comprehensive and has covered most of the points you have raised.

I do agree with both his views of

1) keeping your UK property, maybe renting it out and

2) Selling up and cutting ties.

There are sound reasons for both options!

However, with 2 young children, personally I would go for option one, just to be safe!

I know it makes it easier to return to the UK if things get tough, but better safe than sorry.

Aslo, Bobaol's idea to rent and move around to get the feel of areas is great, but not practical with school age children.

So, the advice you will get will differ accordingly. i suggest you have a good nose around EOS using the search enging.

There are many answers on this forum, just a bit of leg work to find them!

kind regards,

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Thanks for the replies, what a warm welcome, and so much more information than I was expecting - thank you  It is a big relief that our eldest should find it reasonably easy to come to terms with it all.

So it seems that to start with we have to do some independant research into where abouts in Spain we'd like to live and then look at the schooling as part of that research.

We will all be learning at the very least basic Spanish before we move, that the first thing we decided!

I suppose other than reading more on the technicalities of an international move there isn't really much more we can do before we are ready to actually go out there and start the ground search as it were!

If I dare ask for anything else, could someone give us a bit of a clue as to where to actually base our searches in addition to Estepona? I am off now to have a nosy around the www to see what I can find out about Estepona - thanks again for all fo the replies, I can't tell you how helpful they are, (and how excited they make me!!) 

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/18/2007.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Nat    You have come to the right place for some advice, we lived in the Marbella area ( 15 km) for 7 years so know that area pretty good , as regards work that can be hard going to find a good job with good pay  it depends on skills but we know many jobs are only paying about 300 eur. per week . plenty of good schools around ,great beaches , plenty of entertainment if req. our running costs for a 2 bed  penthouse was 1500 eur.  ( a year)       that was total   elec/ gas /phone /all other costs.  Marbella itself can be a bit pricey but if you keep away a little bit your ok,  good public transport in the area.                              As they say  pick an area then have a long rental to see if you really like.   We are east of Malaga now but no good for you as work in this area is hard going as mostly Spanish but still some good spots to live if you dont need to work. If you look through the message boards more info will come to hand.  Regards Rosi n

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Natalie,

Just a suggestion for you since you haven't decided where you want to be yet. I live in Torremolinos, which despite it's reputation as a tacky has-been, has undergone a lot of changes in recent years and really isn't such a bad place! I'm not suggesting you should choose to live here, but as a place to base yourself while searching around, you could do worse. It's literally 10 minutes from Malaga airport, and is on the train line connecting Malaga to Fuengirola, with Benalmadena & Arroyo de Miel (also very popular with Brits) in between, which makes day tripping and exploring so much easier than by car (parking can be a nightmare!) There's also a good bus connection to places further down the coast like Mijas, Calahonda, Marbella & Estepona. Plus, you'll also be much nearer to visit places the other side of Malaga, like Nerja, and popular inland spots like Alhaurin.

Wherever you decide upon, I wish you all the best of luck.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi, do any of you know anything about NIE numbers?  I have one but lost it is there any where I

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi, do any of you know anything about NIE numbers?  I have one but lost it, is there any where someone I can contact to find out what it is, also my sister needs an NIE number as she is going to buy a property in mallorca, am I right in thinking that her lawyer won't get it anymore and that my sister has to apply in person or to the spanish embassy for it, any advise or info would be helpful, cheers Celia

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/18/2007.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Janice, thanks for info, it's food for thought, gives me somewhere to start. cheers Celia

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

For anyone contemplating moving abroad there is much to think about and planning is of course crucial? Weve recently begun this onerous task after receiving an offer on our house the first day it went on sale!! We now have around 10 weeks to : Find a school for our daughter, a home in Spain and complete all of the necessary forms to help make the move more bearable. We also have years of clutter in our very large old Victorian house and many items of furniture to decide what to do with? Its all just dawning on us and at times it seems a bit of a nightmare with so much to organise and with so little time to actaully complete the task! This is just the beginning but to help with organising everything I've put together an initial spreadsheet "project plan" with the help of a mate who's also on his way travelling around the world soon. This plan is just version one and has I learn more I'll update it.

Anyone who would like a copy, just send me a Personal Message and I'll email a copy to you

Mike T

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/18/2007.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Thanks Mike this sounds really usefuI and extremely efficient of you! 

I have sent my email address.

Julia

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

You may also want to check out www.dontforgetyourtoothbrush.com which has some excellent checklists.  It's mainly for holidays but could prove useful for a move too.

Justin

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Mike, I do so relate to where ur coming from!

We are moving over to Spain in August and I have just put our house on the market.  Fortunately we already have a house, have got our kid into an international school but I am just beginning to sort out our 'clutter' of 11 years of living in this house.  It's an awesome task and one that I have to try and accomplish on my own because my husband is away at sea most of the time.  I would LOVE to read your project plan and see if it's anything like mine!

Good luck to you and congratulations for getting an offer on your house so quickly!!!

Suzi

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Jules,

Just noticed that youre from St Ives, Cambridge. My Grown up daughter Alison was married there nearly 3 years ago and they are from down the road in Needingworth! Small world isn't it?

Youre very lucky St Ives (Not Devon) is a great place to live..................

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Good morning

Mike I would love to see a copy of your list but I'm not sure I am able to PM yet, I certainly can't see a straight forward way of doing it at least! I have an old email address I don't mind who knows at olivers@dingdongdo.freeserve.co.uk Thanks, I am hoping it will be good food for thought!

And thanks to everyone else for the replies, we really do apreciate a kick in the right direction!!

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know

Hi Natalie,

I have sent you an email with the spreadsheet.

For future reference just click on the "Send Private Message"  thats located next to any members message and a box will appear where you can write your own  personal message without it appearing on the members message board!

 

Mike T

This message was last edited by miket on 5/1/2007.

 Spam post or abuse? Please let us know