Do you need to be resident to work in spain

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27 Jan 2012 5:39 PM by suemac Star rating in Jumilla, Murcia. 1001 posts Send private message

 From our experience - please note that we live in the Murcia region! - this is the way it should happen.

1.  Everyone who wishes to carry out a financial transaction in Spain, such as buying a property or a car, will need a NIE number.  Even if you live in the UK, it may be necessary to have one.  For example, when we die, our children who live in London will need NIEs to be able to inherit our property in Spain.  NIE is the equivalent of the NI number in the UK, which enables the British Government to be "big brother" too!

2.  If you actually live in Spain you should register on the padrón (similar to being on the electoral roll), which helps your local town hall get more money and also, in our case, it enables us to get free Spanish classes in the local Adult Education centre. This seems to be a win/win scenario though I don't think it is compulsory.  I believe somebody suggested doing so even if you aren't a full-time resident in Spain.

3.  If you actually live in Spain as a foreigner you must be registered at your National Police station/Extranjeros oficina as such, which is where you will receive your Certificado de Registro, which replaced the tarjeta. Useful information and a copy of this  have already been posted.

4.  Please note that the certificate mentioned in point 3 above does not indicate that you are a tax resident in Spain.  We had to apply separately to the Hacienda for a certificate of fiscal residency, which we needed so that we could inform HM Revenue & Customs that we wanted to pay tax on our pensions here in Spain, rather than in the UK, under the double tax agreement.  If you are resident in Spain for at least 183 days during any  year, you should  be paying tax here (assuming your income is high enough) rather than in the UK.  For IHT purposes, any pensioners living in Spain are advised to submit a tax return even if they don't have to pay any tax, as it helps lower costs when your partner dies.

Hope that this helps to clarify things.  Please note that I am not a financial advisor - this is based on our own experiences plus advice from our financial advisor!

Sue



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 Sue Walker

Author of "Retiring the Ole Way", now available on Amazon

See my blog about our life in Spain: www.spainuncovered.com




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28 Jan 2012 2:59 PM by jamesy Star rating in Pilar de la Horadada. 7 posts Send private message

 From Angloinfo Costa Blanca's page Working in Spain 

"Work Permit

EU and EEA citizens are exempt from requirements concerning visas, passports and medical checks when entering another EU Member State. An identity card allows the holder to enter freely and to move around for three months, which is useful if you find temporary work or are seeking employment.

EU and EEA citizens do not need a work permit.

They may exercise the occupational activity of their choice. However, as soon as they have found work and no later than three months after arriving, they must apply for a "residence permit for a national of an EU Member State".

It is valid for five years and automatically renewable."

 



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29 Jan 2012 4:01 AM by paulsimkiss Star rating in Thailand & Spain. 58 posts Send private message

paulsimkiss´s avatar

 

Hello everyone
I have just spent the last 30 mins reading this whole thread for the first time and I am still confused of two things.
 
1.       If Spain is your main place of residence, whether you work there or not, is it compulsory to have this new residence certificate. Some people say no and others seem to be saying yes. Which is it?
 
2.       What is the useful purpose of a residence certificate, does anybody know? What do you need it for, what benefit do you get from it, if anything?
 
I thought if you were an EU passport holder, you could travel throughout Europe and stay where you liked for as long as you wanted. But someone on here is suggesting there is a limit of 183 days, is that true? Is it all Europe? Or is it just Spain?
 
As far as I am aware there is no immigration or passport control within the EU for EU citizens. You don’t get your passport stamped or swiped. I have never in the last 5 years, ever seen any passport control at Alicante airport. It’s just get off, get your bags, and off you go.
 
Regarding an NIE number and NIE document. As far as I am aware, or at least I though, the NIE is a separate thing in total to a residence certificate. The only thing they have in common is that the residence certificate has the NIE number on it.
 
I do understand that you need an NIE number to be able to function in Spain, re buy a property, car, telephone, suma, utilities. That’s fine, but what is it you cannot do without a residence certificate?
 
For the record. I have raised this subject on another thread recently, re holiday homes deemed letting tax. I have suspicions that this whole residency thing is being used by the Spanish government as a loophole to apply this deemed letting tax, to foreigners who do not have a residence certificate. And it is a way of the Spanish government getting round EU law to impose this punitive tax, which I believe is illegal. But that’s a different subject to this tread.
 
For the record, I have both NIE and residence certificate. Only because years ago, I thought that is what you had to do. At the time the residency was the old card and came in handy for shopping as ID proof when using a bank card. Someone on here mentioned residency renewal. As far as I know, my certificate is for life with no expiry date.
 
Just a note on the Padron, I had to laugh, when I went to the town hall to register, the current Padron for my property had everyone who had ever live there on it, about 12 names, and the Spanish girl at town hall, wanted to keep them on, and just add ours. As they say, that’s Spain.
 
All comments most welcome.


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29 Jan 2012 10:51 AM by lostagain Star rating. 57 posts Send private message

 

 



This message was last edited by lostagain on 29/01/2012.



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30 Jan 2012 5:28 AM by paulsimkiss Star rating in Thailand & Spain. 58 posts Send private message

paulsimkiss´s avatar

 

Well what a jumble sale this is. It’s like platting fog. Important statements highlihted in red. My comments in blue.
 
DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 29 April 2004
 
on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members
to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States
amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC,
68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC,
90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC
 
 
(9) Union citizens should have the right of residence in the host Member State for a period
not exceeding three months without being subject to any conditions or any formalities
other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport, without prejudice to a
more favourable treatment applicable to job-seekers as recognised by the case-law of the
Court of Justice.
 
(10) Persons exercising their right of residence should not, however, become an unreasonable
burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during an initial period of
residence. Therefore, the right of residence for Union citizens and their family members for
periods in excess of three months should be subject to conditions.
 
(11) The fundamental and personal right of residence in another Member State is conferred
directly on Union citizens by the Treaty and is not dependent upon their having fulfilled
administrative procedures.
 
(12) For periods of residence of longer than three months, Member States should have the
possibility to require Union citizens to register with the competent authorities in the place of
residence, attested by a registration certificate issued to that effect.
 
What does that mean. NIE or Padron or Residence certificate ?
 
(13) The residence card requirement should be restricted to family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State for periods of residence of longer than three months.
 
So does that mean EU nationals are exempt from so called residence card?
 
(14) The supporting documents required by the competent authorities for the issuing of a
registration certificate or of a residence card should be comprehensively specified in order to
avoid divergent administrative practices or interpretations constituting an undue obstacle to
the exercise of the right of residence by Union citizens and their family members.
 
(22) The Treaty allows restrictions  to be placed on the right of free movement and residence on
grounds of public policy, public security or public health. In order to ensure a tighter
definition of the circumstances and procedural safeguards subject to which Union citizens and
their family members may be denied leave to enter or may be expelled, this Directive should
replace Council Directive 64/221/EEC of 25 February 1964 on the coordination of special
measures concerning the movement and residence of foreign nationals, which are justified on
grounds of public policy, public security or public health
 
Sounds to me that they can do as they like.
 
 
1. Spanish Royal Decree - 240-2007 - dated 16th February 2007
CHAPTER I - General provisions
Article 1 - Objective
 
1. This Royal Decree lays down the conditions for exercising the rights to enter and leave Spain and the rights of
free movement, stay, residence, permanent residence and work in Spain of nationals of other European Union
Member States and of other states party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area (EEA), as well as the
limitations on these rights on the grounds of public policy, public security or public health.
 
2. This Royal Decree shall be without prejudice to the provisions of special laws and of the international treaties to
which Spain is a party.
 
Article 7 - Residence of over three months of citizens of a European Union Member State or of another
state party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area.
 
1. Citizens of a European Union Member State or of another state party to the Agreement on the European
Economic Area have the right to reside in Spanish territory for over three months. Interested parties must apply
personally to the Foreign Residents Office in the province in which they intend to remain or take up residence or,
failing that, the local police station, for registration in the Central Foreign Residents Register. Application for
registration must be made within three months of the date of entry into Spain and applicants shall be issued
immediately with a registration certificate stating the registered person's name, nationality, address and foreign
resident identification number.
 
Is this NIE registration (Probably not as that is a tax ID thing) or Residency certificate? What is Foreign Residents Register?
 
2. Together with the application for registration, the applicant must present a valid passport and national identity
document. If the document in question has expired, the applicant must submit a copy of the document and of the
request for renewal.

Best of luck if you can make sense of this lot. In my opinion I think you should have a residence certificate. You will have to way up the pros and cons. For example, even if you only use your Spanish property as a holiday home, are you not better off to get a residence certificate to aviod non resident ''deemed letting tax''. And if you live and own a property full time in Spain, and you don't bother to get a residence certificate, are you leaving yourself wide open to non resident ''deemed letting tax''.


 



This message was last edited by paulsimkiss on 30/01/2012.

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30 Jan 2012 7:14 AM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Paul,

 

Sorry mate but as I read the info.,  most of it seems pretty clear to me. 

 

Also, at least some of the points you have raised have been covered and explained in the earlier posts.

 

If you have a specific question, I am sure several of us here will do our best to explain our understanding.





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30 Jan 2012 1:38 PM by paulsimkiss Star rating in Thailand & Spain. 58 posts Send private message

paulsimkiss´s avatar

Hello Johnzx

Well it does not seem pretty clear to me, it might be to you.

The question is ''does an EU citizen need a cetificate of residencia'' if they stay in Spain more than 183 days?

I am not arguing either way, I just want to know, yes or no.

Your own statement from your own post on here. I quote, copied and pasted

The residencia as such no longer exists for citizens of the EU (it still does for non EU citizens)
 
So that means it did once exist, but not anymore. So where is the statement published by the Spanish goverment that the need for a residencia certificate for EU citizens has been abolished.?
 
It is only 1 year ago that I renewed my residencia from the old card to the new paper cetificate. If it does not exist how did I get it?
 
Anybody else want to chip in.
 


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30 Jan 2012 1:44 PM by lostagain Star rating. 57 posts Send private message

** EDITED - Against forum rules **




This message was last edited by EOS Team on 30/01/2012.



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30 Jan 2012 1:52 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

 

You do not have a Residencia (they ceased to exist for EU citizens from April 2007).
 
What you probably have  is a Certificate (printed on green paper) that, as an EU citizen, you have registered as living in Spain, on the Foreigner’s Register. 
 
That being so, it does mean that your are tax resident in Spain as from the day you registered and must make a tax return ( its in about June) of the year following your registration.
 
 
In Addition:-
 
If an EU citizen is permanently in Spain for three months they must register as above.
 
If they are here for say less that 3 months permanently but in total 183 in 12miths they are in any case tax resident in Spain. (there are also other things like main home, family home etc which would make them tax resident even without the 183 days, but lets keep it simple)
 
ONLY NON EU CITIZEN NOW HAVE A RESIDENCIA CARD.

 



This message was last edited by johnzx on 30/01/2012.



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30 Jan 2012 2:18 PM by suemac Star rating in Jumilla, Murcia. 1001 posts Send private message

Hi everyone

This is the information I received from my tax advisor:

"The Green piece of paper is what we call civil residency, that is to say that you went to the police station to tell them you live here. It does not automatically mean you are considered a Tax resident as until you inform the Tax office they will have you registered as a Non Resident.
  
Unless you have your NIE number registered with the Tax Office they will not have you in the system, for that reason everyone who obtains a NIE number has to physically take the document to the Tax office after it has been issued by the Ministry of the Interior to have it registered."
 
As Paul said, this green piece of paper replaced the old residencia tarjeta, so many people are now referring to it as the residencia certificado!  Unfortunately this certifcate cannot be used for ID purposes, unlike (from what friends have told me who have lived here a long while) the old residence card.
 
Sue
 



_______________________

 Sue Walker

Author of "Retiring the Ole Way", now available on Amazon

See my blog about our life in Spain: www.spainuncovered.com




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