| The Comments |
Hi all,
I am currently a very despondent and bemused individual caught up in this ridiculous Spanish Legal System and a very angry man indeed… If I write my story in short so as you may understand why.
I put a deposit down in September 2005 to purchase a 2 bed apartment in Porto Del Duquesa/Manilva area on development Jardine Del Mar. Now the worst decision I have ever made in my life…
The agent was ADH, the developer Promaga and at the time the lawyers were Lawyers of Spain and we had a LEGAL BANK GUARANTEE with Millennium Insurance and still have a copy of this today, for what it’s worth??
The development was due to be finished summer 2007, it was not finished by March 2008, so we requested the execution of our Bank Guarantee on 3rd March 2008. Various delaying tatics were rife with our then lawyer and did not feel they were doing right by us?
After seeing various messages on EOS and information from a well-known lawyer we were encouraged that there might be a way forward legally to continue with the execution of the Bank Guarantee against developer/insurance company. After various discussions and e-mail correspondence between March and April 2008 we enrolled the services of this well-known Lawyer Firm, paid in various stages the legal fees as agreed in the original scheduled document and unfortunately also gave Power Of Attorney to them as well.
All seemed straight forward with regular communication with updates saying we lost our case in first instance, but this was normal and they would appeal and we should win because it was straight forward case with legal Bank Guarantee.
These messages were all looking to be going to plan right up until we were notified by a fairly senior member of staff in Feb 2011 that that we had “won our case” and congratulated us on this success informing us that the monies would follow shortly - This was also evident on the Lawyers website where our case still today states that it is a won case!!
Various correspondences between the Lawyers and me ensued over the following months, giving updates to when to expect my monies to be in my bank account here in UK etc, etc. Then a bolt from the Blue came in July 2011 when we were notified that this senior member of staff no longer worked at the Law firm and he had mistakenly informed us of this win and it was just the right to appeal that had been won??
I am sure you could imagine what we were feeling and had various discussions with the senior Lawyer as to how this could have happened, but no real meaningful or satisfactory explanation has been given to date…
I today get informed that this right to appeal hearing will not take place until 1st Quarter of 2013, some 2 years after being told I had already won my case and 12 months from now??
If my case is so straight forward with a legal bank guarantee, how can it be taking this long? Or did we win our case back in Feb 2011, but something has happened to our money??
I would welcome anyone else’s experiences, if similar to mine, or any idea of what could have gone wrong??
Mark
This message was last edited by mark barton on 20/03/2012.
0
Like
|
Mark, unfortunately your story is similar to thousands of others. What is the point of the bank guarantee if most of the time they aren't worth the paper they are written on.
I also think that your saga will be extended even further when even if you do win your case, actually getting the money back into your bank account can be a massive hurdle, especially as many developers just don't have the funds available in the first place, and that's if they haven't gone bankrupt yet which many have.
There are other threads on the forum about this.
You will ultimately be steered to the next possible scenario which is suing the bank for not holding onto your money properly as they should have done, and then this can also take a few years.
Sorry for the bad news but there is probably no quick solution to your problem.
I really hope that I'm wrong.
Justin
_______________________
Schools in Spain Guide | The Expat Files | Learn Spanish | Earn a living in Spain
0
Like
|
Justin,
You have totally missed my point here, but thanks for your reply!
You may or may not have noticed that I have read and replied to many other threads relating to getting your money back, but the big difference is I do have a legal bank guarantee and had been told/advised by my lawyer that this should be a straight forwards case. This is also evident in many of the threads from a lawyer who participates on EOS site.
My question really was if this is so straight forward why has it taken since executing the BG in 2008 until what looks like as advised on 19th March 2012 to be 1st Qtr 2013 to have my appeal heard in the courts? This is after me/us already being advised by my current lawyer that we had already won our case back in Feb 2011 and is detailed on your website as a won case via the lawyers Blog. The correspondance from my lawyer in Feb 2011 was so detailed it stated that the BG insurance company, not the developer had transferred the money to courts and just needed to wait for funds to be released to the lawyer and subsequently on to me?
How can I be told we have won case Feb 2011 and monies will be with me soon to then be advised in July 2011 that they informed me incorrect and we only won the right to appeal our case? This is my issue and feel let down badly my legal firm and have lost all confidence as this massive mistake would not happen here in UK.
I would welcome your comments now trhat I have put it more in to context...
Mark
This message was last edited by mark barton on 21/03/2012.
0
Like
|
Hi Mark
I understand what you are saying now although I don't think there's such a thing as a straight forward case in Spain at the moment.
Your issue now is more with the law firm in question so I don't know what to say about that. I would also have been incredibly angry if that had happened to me.
It was quite a big cock up on their part to say the least.
Have they given you an explanation as to how that happened?
Justin
_______________________
Schools in Spain Guide | The Expat Files | Learn Spanish | Earn a living in Spain
0
Like
|
Justin, In answer to your question No, just excuses and blaming the idividual who notified us, who happened to be the most accurate and professional person within the law firm. He is all edged to have left the company, but I am not so sure. I wil PM you! Regards Mark
0
Like
|
There are currently important delays in Courts. Let´s hope the new Ministry makes a good reform.
In terms of Courts speed, I am afraid I can say nothig different.
MAria
_______________________
Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
0
Like
|
Maria,
Let's cut to the chase here!
The fact that I have been notified my hearing won't be until 2013 was just the iceing on the cake, my real gripe here is being categorically notified in writing, not just once, but many times that we had won our case initially dating back from 14th Feb 2011. the case is PE 1689/2008 in the Madrid court and is still displayed today as a won case on the lawyers blog on EOS?
This notification coming only 3 months after a heavy discount was offered to me/us by the developer (Nov 2010), that seems to fit with the case won theory as the developer would have known we were close to a result. Only to be notified 5 months later (July 2011) that this was a mistake and we had just won the right to appeal?
I can't understand how this would take take 5 month for such a grave mistake to have come to light, then to be given no real explanation from a law firm of this calibre who should not make these mistakes in the first place, if this is actually the case?
We have not been shown any real sorrow, compassion or recompense offered for giving this alledged wrong information!
You know more detail of this than most here Maria and know where I am coming from...
...So I am not interested in excuses, just facts like I have listed and have documents to back up my story. I am merely demonstrating here for others to see and learn from!
Regards
Mark
0
Like
|
Mark,
Do you think / can it be that the lawyer has claimed the funds from the court and not passed them to you? It seems strange that this 'competent' lawyer has possibly left the company. It all sounds pretty dodgy to me. At best the firm are incompetent and at worst they are hiding the possibility that your funds have been mis-appropriated.
A full explanation of what has actually happened and an apology are way overdue to you from this firm. Why not ask Maria to look into it for you?
_______________________
0
Like
|
I think that Mark´s concerns are with our Law firm, are not?
I am happy to explain if this is the case,
Mark?
Kindest,
Maria
_______________________
Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
0
Like
|
Maria,
We think alike!
Mark
0
Like
|
iTS QUITE A WORRY TO THINK THAT THE SUCESS STORIES THAT GIVE HOPE TO ALL APPEAR NOT TO BE TRUE FROM THIS CASE
0
Like
|
iTS QUITE A WORRY TO THINK THAT THE SUCESS STORIES THAT GIVE HOPE TO ALL APPEAR NOT TO BE TRUE FROM THIS CASE
0
Like
|
Please all with converns about CostaLuz Lawyers. Write them publicly here if you want.
We are a modern Law Firm which promote and respect transparency as one important value of the company and society: it promotes progress and welfare
Please write and blame. We are available to give answers to concerns.
It is not that we are driving crazy is that we want to show how far we are able to go with transparency. :)
This message was last edited by mariadecastro on 22/03/2012.
_______________________
Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
0
Like
|
Mark,
I was lucky enough to be able to post about the successfull completion of my case on this forum in November last year. Looking at the details of your case, it's remarkable how similar they are to my situation.
We put a deposit down in 2006, with ADH on a 4 bed Promaga development (Vista Hermosa). We also initially utilised Lawyers of Spain and were issued with a Bank Guarantee.
In late 2008 / early 2009 we initiated court action to retrieve our substantial deposit monies and used the same Legal Firm you are alluding to.
Over the years the case plodded slowly forwards, and I still remember the "false dawn" email we received in October 2010 which was titled "Congratulations - Victory in Court of First Instance". To the uninitiated it appeared that there was an opportunity that I may recieve my money back within a matter of weeks.
As it turned out, it took a further 14 long months. But when it finally happened, it was sweet, and the resentment and anger and stress that had been building up for many years just melted away.
It's easy to lose the faith when times are hard, particularly when you feel there is a lack of information, or even worse, mis-communication. However, I'm absolutely convinced that the Legal Team that currently represent you have your best interests at heart and that a successful outcome will eventually result.
The complex and apparently undiciplined legal system in Spain is difficult to cope with when we are used to the regimented processes of the UK system, and I believe that its our inabilities to align our communication styles and cultural expectations rather than specific incompetencies in many cases.
I really hope that your case progresses to a successful conclusion as rapidly as possible.
Best Regards
JJ
0
Like
|
JJ, Our cases do seem uncannily similar, the big difference being, 14 months after the Congratulations e-mail you received you had your monies returned! I on the other hand following the same sort of Congratulations e-mail which contained specific next steps with developers name, insurance company name and that the funds were transferred to the courts in Madrid. The following 5 months ensued with my constant requests for updates on when my money was to be here in my UK account and all replies continuing along the same path of "soon to be with you" kind of stance. I could have accepted this for 14 months, but the bolt out of the Blue was then to be told they had wrongly notified us and we had just won the right to appeal against the first instance going the developers/insurance company way? No substantial reasons have ever been given to me and I now feel there is no momentum at all anymore? I would dearly love to be able to keep the faith, but I need severe actions and evidence forthcoming by the lawyer to even attemp to bring my confidence in them and the Spanish system. Something that I am afraid will take some doing as I sit here today... Regards Mark & Denise Barton
0
Like
|
The delays within the Spanish system of Justice are of major concern to us all, especially when there are those whose route to justice is significantly compromised, and I have yet to understand why it is that good legal professionals do not report these complaints as a matter of course to the CGPJ for every client's case that is subjected to abusive delays of this nature.
Only when the facts relating to these delays are reported back in this way will statistics reveal the true failure of law enforcement in Spain. At present as far as I can ascertain Spain is expected to report back details to the World Justice Project, but it appears that these statistics are hidden, as the CGPJ classify these instances as "not real delays" under the assumption that their "procedures" have been completed, without any reference to timescales! The fact that judicial enforcements are left outstanding for indefinite periods of time continues to go unrecognised. This is totally unacceptable and these facts should be made far more transparent to those who monitor the System of Justice. Denial will only accentuate the problems within the Justice System and the sooner that transparency of the true facts is made available the better.
0
Like
|
Well all,
Since Maria's post last night asking for any concerns with her law firm to be made public and so far no-one has replied, it looks like I am the only one with unsatisfied concerns?
So Maria... Please feel free to put aside some time to provide me with the answers?
I have only been waiting eight (8) months, I am all ears...
Regards
Mark
0
Like
|
|
Maria,
My concerns are as already clearly stated earlier in this thread and in my Private messages to you yesterday. You could have contacted me off of here, but for the avoidance of doubt and as you request I will list them again:
1/ We were categorically and convincingly notified in writing, not just once, but many times by Steven Schaffer copies to you, but as our regular point of contact, other than yourself that we had won our case against Millenium Insurance/Promaga. The first correspondence was on the 14th Feb 2011, followed by many others with specific detail that could only relate to our case PE 1689/2008.
2/This Executive case PE 1689/2008 in the Madrid Court is still displayed today as a won case on your blog on EOS?
3/ This notification had come only 3 months after a heavy discount was offered to me/us Via your company from Promaga (Nov 2010), that seems to fit with the case won theory as the developer would have known we were close to a result and as you/Steven kept telling us.
4/ We were in regular contact with Steven via e-mail with copies to yourself all still very positive, then after me chasing for a regular update (July 2011) 5 months after the initial correspondence? To be told that this was a mistake and we had just won the right to appeal?
5/ I can't understand how this would take 5 month for such a grave mistake to have come to light, then to be given no real explanation from you as a senior part of a law firm of this calibre who should not make these mistakes in the first place?
The phone call you and I had in July/August last year did not answer my question of how could such a grave mistake happen? All correspondence between us since has been me asking questions and you giving very brief answers at best and usually a reply that is only skirting around my questions.
I have had enough of this and feel that out of duty you should give me every detail possible because at the moment, If this was a mistake, then your company made it and I need convincing?
The detail we received when were told we had won was so in depth we just cannot believe it was wrong?
So making it very clear to you that if this mistake can or has happened, have further mistakes happened where our monies have been awarded, but we have not seen it?
I/we honestly fear the case has been won, but my money has not materialised back to me, for whatever reason... And that the delays and skirted around replies I have been receiving from you are just an excuse?
Whatever your explanation might now be, we feel very strongly not to have been shown any real sorrow, compassion or given recompense for giving this alleged wrong information!
I welcome your answers, but No excuses please…
Regards
Mark & Denise Barton
This message was last edited by mark barton on 23/03/2012.
0
Like
|
Mark - I'm presuming you have never received a copy of the Judge's Ruling. Although it would, of course, be in Spanish at least you would have definite clarfifcation on exactly what the result of the hearing was. It is your right to have a copy of the Ruling, and many lawyers would forward a copy to you when advising the result of a hearingl without having to request it. Make sure you get a copy of this emailed to you immediately.
By the way, the blog you refer to states that the sentence date for 1689/2008 was made 19 February 2010.
This message was last edited by Suzie on 23/03/2012.
0
Like
|