TV problem with community 'rules'. Help?

Hi Dave

My apologies I did not compute that last paragraph re 'corrie' - in those circumstances - no - no individual would be allowed to have their satellite dish if a comunal alternative was present.

 However, my community has stated that they do not want to look into a satelite dish for the foreignors and if one was erected then the foreignors would have to pay.  Which is fine, except they expect us to pay for their proposed tv community installation which will only transmit spanish TV and as soon as we have paid for it and it is up and running - we the foreignors must remove all aerials and satellite dishes forthwith!  So pay for the new TV so that I have no TV - is not my idea of being reasonable. 

The interesting thing is that the foreignors nearly represent half of the community.  Hence we are exercising our right now not to pay for the Spanish TV installation and hold on to our satelite dishes.

Zena143

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Hi Zena,

That doesn't sound great!

We have a Spanish President and me as VP to represent the almost 50% non Spanish. We have our differences but try to maintain mutual respect. We use our (English) satelite installer to maintain both the sat system and the Spanish system and we've spent money on both so no one can object.

When people are unreasonable it is easy to be unreasonable back but at some point you will need to try and agree a solution as, living with conflict is very unpleasant. I hope it all works out!

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Thank you so much for all the tips and advice. We get on really well with our President, but this is the stance so far! It appears in the rules that only a normal dish may be erected, but they failed to denote what normal meant, he has rushed through an amendment to say no bigger that 80cm as we questioned this, ( it does seem that these committees are run by amateurs!!). This means we can only accept Super beam or that other lot who re broadcast illegally. We are ground floor and if we cannot place a dish there, as it would not be allowed plus it would probably get nicked! Our upstairs neighbour has been emailed by el presidente and has granted we can have access to place a 'normal' dish on a structure that is actual the roof of the stairwell, which is very gratious but probably outside his responsibility as he presumes a communal structure to belong to him, which I doubt is correct as this structure covers a stairwell. I resent being told that I can only buy a service which is operating illegally because if the dish size. On asking about a communal dish, was informed that the upstairs people are happy with what they have, and there would not be enough residents willing to chip in for a communal dish as out of 18 units only about 8 are used. We would be happy to let our upstairs neighbour to use our service dish if it was 1mtr one but again we are told no you cannot have that! In addition a new resident has purchased an upstairs apartment and placed a 1.9 dish on the side of building, Mr President has exclaimed that he has to remove it but says he have a problem. I feel because we are ground floor the rules are that we are penalised for not having a terrace and it's akin to be a second class citizen when it comes to wanting to watch a legal TV system! Welcome to the world of jumped up Presidents and their cronies!

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Very interesting reading!  Our situation is a little different, but while the topic is current I would value any thoughts on it.

We are in a block  of ten apartments on five floors (two on each floor) We are on the third floor and the only non-Spanish in the block. There are six similar blocks on this particular development, each one run as an individual community, and we are, in fact, the only Brits in the sixty! There are several (three) dishes on top of our lift shaft, plus the 'communial' dish which we all subscribed to about two years ago and from which we receive all the Spanish digital stations free of charge.

Senor President has no problem  with me installing a 2m dish up there to pick up the Astra sat - so long as I pay for it (obviously).

My query is this: is it a viable proposition to have such a large dish put up so high, how will they get the signal down to me? - I don't think we will be allowed to run cables down the front of the building. Are there likely be be any other problems I haven't thought of yet?

Thanks

Steve.

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Hi Steve,

In our community there is conduit running from the roof to distribution boxes on each floor and froom them to each apartment. It may be the same in yours but I would have thought the cable can come down the same way the Spanish feed comes down.

The one thing to bare in mind with big dishes on roofs - they are very exposed up there and if not properly anchored will easily be blown out of alignment or worse off the roof. We ended up having to put in concrete bases as we couldn't get them well enough anchored to the roof

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Has anyone any experience of using a company called DVBlab where the TV channels come through the telephone, internet and, by using a set top box, English tv can be viewed on the television . 

 

This message was last edited by madmau43 on 16/04/2012.

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We had it installed last September.  We live in a poor reception area but our  signal is good and you do get just under the 2mb of internet speed.  We paid extra for the set top box and if required we can view TV via laptop in another room.

We are non residents and we can suspend the service whenever we return to UK, the monthly charge goes down to 5e to retain the phone number. 

We had a telefonica line before and for less per year we now have internet and TV.  With Telefonica I rationed my calls, now I'm not afraid to pick up the phone anytime of the day.  The calls have an echo but then so did my neighbours when she rang from Spain to our house in UK.  She used to subscribe to Europa.

I was dubious about having it installed but have read several reports from other satisfied users.

They have a good support network and any querries are dealt with very quickly.

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 Dvblabs is excellent.  Unfortunately, they are not doing the TV installation at the moment for various reasons and you would be limited to phone and internet only.  One person told me they had run out of set top boxes and didn't know when they were getting any in and another said they had "exceeded their quota", whatever that means.  

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 Interesting dialogue on community dishes & tv reception.

As a community administradore I have delt with many cases like these .Firstly you must consider the governing restictions as follows:

1. The local planning requirement which can differ from town to town, Can you satisfy this first ?

2. What do the statutes of the community allow or restrict.

3. The community may have voted through rules at previous meetings with regard to the provision of the same.

Once you have this information you are in a position to then see if you can meet community & local planning requirements with your dish.

The above is variable in most areas & communities but is certainly a thorny subject with both Spanish & ex-pats.

Normally it is forbidden by the community rules to erect a satellite dish of any size on your property externally.

The normal place is the community roof space where you have conduits to your apartment & can connect a dish in most communities by right of ownership.Interstingly airconditioning units must also be located here in most communities not on your terrace ( noise & astectic reasons).

In terms of dispute with community Administrators & Presidents you must have your facts correct as above in points 1.2.3. Then if consent is refused to the communal roof space for the installation you should seek the consent of the community by vote at their next formal meeting by way of seeking a formal addition to the voting agenda points of the same.This should be done in Spanish by burofax to be served a minimum of 7 days prior to the meeting. Seek support from other owners to ensure you can gain a majority vote for your requirement.

I hope this is of assistence.

F. Parkinson Jacksons Administradores.

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Hi
Thank you for that latest post. It seems that the community have agreed that no dish can be more than 80cm, and this dictates that the only system we can receive is Superbeam or the other one, which operate illegally by re broadcasting signals. My concern is that the only system the community agree I can have, is an illegal system to comply with their rules. This is not something I want to be part of but I don't see why I should be denied watching English TV.

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 Hi Christine, If the community is to restrict the size of the dish & therefore the ability to gain legal (please note it is not legal to watch Sky in Spain) own language tv then the community should cater for this in following way :

Install a network system which broadcasts in sufficent languages for the make up of the community languages ( note many communities in Spanish majority get over this by using the case that tv handsets will change the language of any broadcast English language made programs back to the original from the Spanish dubbed ; mostly films).

In the case of a minority language user - This should be put to the next formal meeting for the members to decide on by vote regardless of any rule in existence.( See my previous comment on Agenda point inclusion).This situation is very similar to breaches of paint colour & alterations being given retrospective consent at  formal meetings.

I hope this helps.

F.Parkinson Jacksons Administradores

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Hi Mr Parkinson's

It is a minefield! We do watch our Spanish service and as you say, we do manage to get some films in English. I just find it so frustrating that the community can dictate that I use a system that could be defunct very soon due to its illegality, the BBC are working very hard towards this. I want to be able to receive a legal signal from the Astra satellite not a re bounced one. For instance I believe Superbeam have closed two offices down. We will be putting this to the committee but I can almost predict their response, by the way we have almost 100% of uk residents in our small community of 18 units.
Many thanks for you help
Christine

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 I think someone will be on soon to talk about the legality of Sky,  It is not "illegal" but it is against the T&Cs of Sky.  However, nothing wrong in receiving Freesat signals whatsoever.  Where I used to live has one dish for the entire community of at least 30 properties, flats and houses.  Installation was a one-off €350 which included wiring and set top box and everyone can have access to all the freesat signals.  One dish on a community, albeit it a large dish, can't really spoil the asthetics, can it?  

At our new place, we voted in that dishes were allowed provided they were not in your face or stuck on the sides of walls etc.  Those who have them are lucky enough that they fit on a roof space and can't be seen from ground level.  And, anyway, what is so "repulsive" about these dishes?  Is it a snobbery thing?  After all, TV aerials stick out and can be a blot but we are all used to them so have accepted them.  Solar panels and big, whirry aircon units stuck in plain site are just as much an eyesore to some people.  

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(please note it is not legal to watch Sky in Spain)

AFIAK, Skys T&Cs are not part of Spanish law, and therefore it is not illegal to use a Sky card in Spain. It is against the T&Cs of the Sky contract, and if either party to that contract know that those T&Cs are broken, then the contract can be cancelled - resulting in the Sky card being rendered useless. There is a difference between T&Cs and things that are written into law.

Also, as BBC ITV C4 and Fives are free to air channels, that do not require a viewing card to receive or watch, are nothing to do with Sky TV (other than they pay to be on the Sky Guide), can be received even without a Sky box (use a basic FTA box), and that there are no restrictions on watching free to air TV channels from other EU countries, then receiving and watching those channels is also not illegal. Heck, even D+, the Spanish satellite service, includes other EU countries free to air channels (Germany, France, Italy, UK)  on its programme guide .

 

This message was last edited by satandpcguy on 25/04/2012.

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And it still boils down to be being restricted to an 80cm dish, I wanted to use just free view as I do over here, not bothered about Sky. But I have to have a 100cm dish for this. I would love to have a community dish and in fact when the place was built 7 years ago it was all wired up for one but never seen through with a dish! The other side is not all units are occupied, so we can't get everyone to say yes to a dish, and means that the ones that are here will have to stump up the full cost. All our president says is, well we all have Superbeam here, so that is what you should get! I don't want a dodgy outfit supplying my tv signal!

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With respect to the last posts on this second page, and especially to the Adminastradores, as I have pointed out on the first page you have a legal right to watch TV in your own language in Spain or any european country.  I posted all the documents you need to prove this, and with regard to the town hall rules - I posted that my town hall - Fuengirola states they do not like aerials and dishes but that their edict to take them down is subject to the laws of the land  and the laws state that you can.

Regarding community rules, under Horizontal Property Law a community cannot make rules that go against the laws of the land!!! Terminado - finito - full stop!

Finally the only way you can be in the wrong is if you are in a new building that already has a built in  infrastructure that allows all residents to see all the languages they require in that community (this is usually done as the place is built) or at some point someone has asked the community to provide this and if this is provided within three months of requesting if not - you are legally free to put up whatever you need to receive whatever your language is in the way of TV. 

Also do not be informed tht you wish to commit an illegal act by watching Sky - so that negates your legal right to watch TV - there are over 200 channels up there bouncing off satellites all free to the viewer and nothing to do with Sky - and that is what you should be going for, not a connection to Sky that will cost you loads of money, or to cable which is the same.

As a note to my first report, the community had its extraordinary meeting on this subject and it was decided that a dual system will be incorporated on the roof of our building feeding all 75 flats with both Spanish TV and Free to View TV and the community as a whole is paying for it.  So all ended well.

Stick to your guns, produce the paperwork in English and Spanish and keep pushing - you will get there because all you are asking for is a legal right that by Royal Decree you are allowed in Spain.

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Thank you Zena! I am going to keep plugging away, and will be quoting your reply, thank you very much indeed,
Christine

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Christine

One further point - you state that the community have stated only 80cm dishes can be used, I am sure that if you look in full at the Brussels directive on the "Services:Commission sets out right to use a satellite dish in the Internal Market" the IP/01/913 it specifically in the first boldened paragraph states that 'free to use satellite dishes without undue technical, administrative, urban planning or tax obstacles"  - I suggest you stick a copy of this in which ever language needed under your Presidente's nose and tell him community rules are not only illegal because of the Royal Decree but specifically naming 80m puts him in breach of Brussels/European Directive too!

Then give him the rest of the documents if he still argues, and a written letter of three months notice, and then after that time has elapsed just erect whatever you want (even on the outside of your balcony) if you wish, and let him take you to court if he thinks he has a case!  but be mindful of your neighbours.

 

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Again playing devils advocate:

'free to use satellite dishes without undue technical, administrative, urban planning or tax obstacles"

Can you define what "undue" means in that sentance?  It does not mean "no". If the process for "planning" has been the same for many years, and not questioned, then surely that is precedent, and so not "undue"? Although sticking it under an administrators nose could scare them into action.

You have a legal right to watch TV in your own language in Spain or any european country

And like I have said before, although it states you have the right to watch TV in your own langauge, it does not make it clear what channels they should be...does it say all channels, or only one channel...it could mean that access to BBC World News satisfies that particular criteria. You can receive Sky News and about 100 other UK channels on a 80cm dish - does those cover the criteria?

As mentioned before, most rules and EU rules are very ambigous and open to different interpretation. And a source of income for lawyers to argue such things.

Also worth noting that is all this really worth the trouble? It may well be that by this time next year, the main uk channels may not be available on 1m dishes...

This message was last edited by satandpcguy on 26/04/2012.

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Hi again

Please read the Brussels directive, I do not think it can get much plainer, but specifically read 2nd page Architectural and Town Planning Obstacles - again it could not be more clearer.

Yes I agree if a foolish Administrator wanted to take his community into expensive court action, set against all this legal framework - then so be it !   Shame on the community then for letting him!   As I have said it is up to the administrators if they feel this is wrong to take the co owner to court, it is not for the co owner to do it!

Also - in a few years time - we might have a little box to usb into our TVs that will translate all languages at a push of a button, even perhaps ET's!  Sorry if we all wait for tomorrow we will miss out on the todays...........I have'nt got time to worry about tomorrow - I could be dead!  I will settle for what is happening now thank you.

I do appreciate devil advocates though because they make you think and stretch your brain prior to the old alzheimer's kicking in.

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