Do appreciate your putting on this blog re Wills, Maria, however am still totally confused as to whether or not ours will be valid after 16 August.

scenario

Spouse and I have initially left property to each other. Then, because our children upon marriage came into a family inheritance on demise of remaining partner our estate is to be divided between our grandchildren.

Our wills, in both Spanish and English, state as follows ....Referido única y exclusivamente a su patrimonio situado en España, otorgándolo con arreglo a la legislación de su país de origen......

My question is...if granted with arrangement to the legislation our birth country, United Kingdom, ...are we covered?

Many thanks

Yes, you are covered unless you have no property assets in the UK. In that case, UK will forward your inheritance to Spain.

In that case ( not having property asset in the UK), my advise is to grant a will in Spain, expressly chossing your national law for governing of the inheritance.

Many thanks for your speedy reply Maria,

We have neither assets nor wills in England. The will mentioned is Spanish which automatically came with a translation in English at the office of the notary when issued.

What is the difference then between....your statement.." Expressly choosing our national law for governing inheritance"..and....what my will states ..."granted in accordance to the law of my birth country"

Probably just a play on words but a sentence that HAS to be changed to conform.

It is probably a 'problem' with the translation that makes it appear different,  but both say you have made the Will in accordance with the law in your country of origin as opposed to the law of Spain.  In Spain one is obliged to leave percentages to spouse, children etc.  in UK you can leave the lot to the cats home.

Incidentally, it is the one in Spanish which one  the  legal one, what you have is a copy, the original is retained by the notary.  All Wills in Spain can be found by searching a central register.

That Johnzx is my point.  The wording, and meaning, of our wills appears to me  to say exactly the same.  However, to my understanding, Maria believes this wording is only acceptable IF we also have assets in UK....which we don't.

So my next question is WHAT is the Spanish sentence we need to add.

Dont know about notary retaining a copy but our lawyer certainly has a notorised one. Obviously ours are just copies but paper has been vertically halved .  Lhs in Spanish and rhs in English and as each paragraph is equal it is easy to check translation agrees.

A question.

We have been advised (by a lawer in Spain) that it would be just as well to just re-write our wills rather than "adding" the required wording in order that our wills come under Uk law.

Would that be good advice or is the lawer just trying to make money by getting us to re-write our wills ?

That Johnzx is my point.  The wording, and meaning, of our wills appears to me  to say exactly the same.  However, to my understanding, Maria believes this wording is only acceptable IF we also have assets in UK....which we don't.

I do not have any assets in UK  but I have a Will here in Spain which I made under the laws of my country.  In Spanish it says,     “QUINTO: Es su voluntad que la Ley que regule materialmente su herencia sea la propia de su nacionalidad”

So my next question is WHAT is the Spanish sentence we need to add  . As above or similar.

Don’t know about notary retaining a copy but our lawyer certainly has a notarised one.  (It isproably a ‘copìa simple’)  .Obviously ours are just copies but paper has been vertically halved .  Lhs in Spanish and rhs in English and as each paragraph is equal it is easy to check translation agrees.  As I said the original is with the Notary.   If you lose or destroy any copy you have, or that the lawter has,  all you have lost is a copy, not the original.

Costablade. 

I am just about 110% certain that one cannot add to a Will in Spain (codocil).  One just makes a new one.  And either, would be the same cost anyway.     The reason is that as I said,  the notary has the original and if you were to change a Will there would be in effect 2 a d that would not be possible I believe.

But be aware:  You do not need a lawyer to make a Will unless you have serious complications. (that even goes for in the UK.  I have made several there myself).

In Spain the notary will draw up the Will for you (and that is usually so even with a lawyer) and suggest the usual things which are normally included,  Wills can only be signed in front of a notary. If you have a lawyer they just stand around trying to look as if their fees are justified !   

Notaries make many more Wills that any lawyer !

FLOELLA:

It is not a wordsgame. Let me explain to you.

Before: you granted a will in Spain and stated this had been granted in accordance to Inheritance Law correspondinhg to your natinality ( or birth place) That will could be challenged --- despite being in accordance to your National law--- by forced heirs according to Spanish Law becuase Uk forward inheritance of nationals to country where inherited estate assests are located IF deceased had no property in the UK.

Now:  As Spain has signed the Brussels IV agreement, despite internal UK international law forwad your inheritance to Spain. This International regulation ( of higher range) makes it possible for you to choose UK law as Law governing your inheritance.

Did it make it clearer?

COSTABLADE:

A new will ior an ammendment to the old one would cost you mostly the same and a new once will be a clearer document in my opinion.

Hi there, sorry if this question has been asked before.  We're about to renew our UK wills.  We are completing on a holiday property in Andalusia very soon, do we just write into our UK will our wishes with respect to the Spanish property or do we need a separate Spanish will?  The property will be left to our 2 daughters living in the UK. 

( I hope Maria will agree with this post, as she did with my last, but this time not find the need to post something which might confuse some !  )

Weescottie

Whilst it is possible to have just your UK Will, believe me it will cause big problems.  For about 50 euros get a Spanish Will, made at the notary’s office, for your Spanish property. 

And maybe check with your UK one , which says ‘Last Will and Testament’ that making another Will in Spain will not require a codicil, i.e. because it, the UK one,  will not then be your ‘last Will’ !!

Thanks John and Maria for their comments, much appreciated and helpful.

Costablade

Weescottie:

I need more info for answering you:

- Are they your only descendants?

- Do you have a property in the UK?

Hi there, yes only descendants.  We also have a house in Scotland.

many thanks

In this case, if Scotland Inheritance Law allows you to grant that type of will in regards to your Spanish house, there will be no problem.

As Johnx well advised, a Spanish will will make probate process happier for your heirs in the future

Weescottie.

That post, whilst confusing,  does not affect you. You are not resident in Spain.

QUOTE   "UK Law will apply to that person in all cases but IF he/she does not have estate assets in the Uk   and  he(she, has Spanish residency."

This message was last edited by johnzx on 13/05/2015.

So to clarify the situation, as I understand it, according to old ruling when a Brit, whose only assets are in Spain, dies the UK will have to refer back to Spain and the inheritance laws therein. Consequently any family member not included can challenge the will, under the rules of Spanish Law, and Spain receive all inheritance taxes.

However rewriting ones will in accordance with the new ruling from Brussels lawyers can dispense with the deceased estate as is recorded in the will.  Unfortunately it will not stop any non inheritor challenging the will as this a common practice in UK and Spain will still receive all inheritance taxes.

Some people seem to think that having a UK or Spanish will, or both, absolves them from inheritance tax.

if only that were so! 

No, dear confused ex pat, will or not, your beneficiaries will still pay IHT  , on world wide assets of the deceased  who was resident in Spain, if they are living in Spain, and on Spanish assets if they live in UK.

Campo from which posting on this thread do you get the idea re sans IT if one has a will ?