extra fees for rental properties

I believe that there has been a change to the law and the community can now charge short term rental properties up to 20% extra, however our administrator says they have to have broken some community rules before we can charge them, this seems strange to me.Can anyone shed some light on this, thanks.

No sure I am on the same hymn sheet here. Holiday rental sites have some properties that charge absolutely everything extra to the basic rental charge. Cleaning, towels, bedding, air con, etc etc, and charge plenty.

There was mention of it on this thread, and another that I can't find.

Kavanagh, you are on the wrong sheet.  Actcnm, you are correct   It is a strange setup and unlikely to be used.  If you were hoping it would prevent people from doing short term rentals it it too small an amount.

Kavanagh, you are referring to the rental charge received by owners while actcnm is referring to the community charge received by the community.  A recent law has authorized communities to charge an extraordinary fee to holiday rental owners (which normally they would pass on to the tenants although not necessarily so).  Perrypower, this is not to prevent or even discourage people from holiday rentals but rather to compensate for the extra expense often caused to community property by holiday tenants.  For example our garage door has been broken several times over the past couple of months by holiday users trying to pry them open when the don't know how to operate them or have lost the remotes.  This is just an example, in general of course, long term tenants normally respect ommunity property while holiday tenants are more likely to abuse such property and in costal areas often tend to be loud and heavy drinkers seriously disrupting community life.

You cannot charge people for drinking and being loud

You can however surely put in place compensatory disincentive mechanisms to ensure that law abiding communities are protected from abuse, either from non payments, or misuse of property, or excessive behaviour that compromises the majority, etc, otherwise anarchy rules!

I have said before, I pay my community fees on time every month, yet spend maybe 4 weeks per year there. The rest of the community benefits from my paying on time and not being there to enjoy the facilities. We used to rent out for another 5 or 6 weeks per year, so still a small %age of the year. I would be well miffed if on that basis I was charged more. I agree that people renting should somehow be made accountable for damages to property or the community, but don't agree that everyone should be tarred with the same brush.

Are holiday renters all loud drunken scum and guilty of all the abuse and every bit of damage ever found on a community. This all sounds like prejudice and discrimination. Seems a case of guilty until proven innocent.

Of course permanent residents are never loud and get drunk, probably because it’s so easy to blame others.

Its all about being respectful of one another within boundaries that dont cause major offence or abuse via non payments that can compromise the whole community. It's about finding a civilised balance that suits the whole community isnt it? Pretty much common sense really sticking to defined community rules that help support the majority,  ... or it should be!

One alternative for owners who rent out could be to have a "good housekeeping deposit" to act as security for 7 days beyond the leaving date and is only taken if there's a problem... trouble is this too could be abused by those who have little regard for mutual honesty and respect!!!! Sad that in this day and age there are always those in a minority who can undermine trust and respect in this way. :(

Hence the need for good balanced community rules I suppose.

Quite right ads, ‘’being respectful of one another’’ this is an ambition of the human race, that’s why there are laws on racism, homophobia etc. Perhaps holiday renters should be added to the list.

Good balanced community rules are already protected by community law, where according to Maria on another thread she stated " The internal rules of every community can regulate aspects such as expected behaviour in communal areas and its corresponding sanctioning mechanisms ( always provided these regulations are in accordance to Law, uses and general principles of Law). "

So the whole thing is a money grabbing exercise using prejudice and discrimination to achieve it. A disgrace and back to the good old days ‘’NO BLACKS OR IRISH’’.

What a strange inciteful reaction Kavanagh to the suggestion for good balance in community rules!

It most certainly is not a money grabbing exercise.

Itvwas a proposal from a minority government that last I heard had not been approved by parliament but all has gone quiet recently.

The proposal was, I believe to permit Communities to add fees to owners who rented out apartments short term.

The proposal, not automatic, would have to be approved by 3/5 ths of the owners I believe and there is no doubt that many holidaymakers create more damage than owners or long term tenants.

Maria is correct Communities are governed by HPA and rules but believe me, trying to enforce them if owners or tenants choose not to comply is well nigh impossible other that taking legal action, costly and has to be approved by EGM of owners.

To right hugh.  The CDAD can write up as many rules as they want but do not have the power to enforce or fine.   

Talk about catch 22....

On the one hand those who don’t live on site and are law abiding don’t want to contribute to a fighting fund to cover for instances of non compliance with rules designed to protect , whereas those equally law abiding who do live on site have to suffer the consequences.

Seems as though no law abiding owners ( or renters) are happy with the status quo on communities at the moment, so long as there is no fair way that doesn’t incur major expense to make those who do cause problems accountable!

Is there no such thing as low cost swift legal mechanisms of enforcement via small claims courts? Or are they currently overwhelmed with outstanding cases?

Or might this be more related to larger debts owed to the communities which are starving them of necessary funds, by for instance Banks refusal to register repossessed properties on the land registry which then leaves communities having to wait excessively long periods of time before those outstanding debts are recovered? In which case, as has been debated elsewhere, the solution to this could be to have compulsory land registry registration?

Whatever the circumstance, these instances of financial pressures on communities are hardly a good advert to buy on a community at present, when there’s such distrust in a regulatory structure ( or lack of) intended to protect!

Seems as though no law abiding owners ( or renters) are happy with the status quo on communities at the moment,

I wouldn's say that ads. We must be "reasonably" lucky as the community we live on is reasonably well run and we don't seem to suffer the problems caused by holidaymakers. Maybe it is the lack of Brits that come here, mainly French, German and Spanish. That said, we do have a list of debtors, some of whom have never paid since the community was formed 11 years ago. Not sure why it is taking the administrators so long to get the money, although I know two of the big debtors have recently been repossessed and a claim is in to the banks for some of the back charges.

Maybe if you go down the road of registering a security bond with the administrators, probably 200€ to 500€ for rentals, at least you can get it back (plus a small amount of interest?) when you stop renting if there have been no issues.

Yes, self regulation in the UK in the form of “good housekeeping deposits” have appeared to work where they ( agents or owners) hold the card details for 7 days beyond the leave date ( giving opportunity to check )  and only apply charges on proof of problems. But obviously this too incurs costs and is reliant upon honest and respected agents ( or owners). So once again back to a trusted/ respected self regulated system. Much harder however when owners are far more remote from their holiday homes.

As for community debts, the amounts previously identified across the whole sector sometime ago appeared staggeringly high, so has this improved?

Good to hear of communities that don’t incur major problems but presumably this change was brought about on the back of a growing problem within communities? Those communities who don’t have the same problems presumably wouldn’t  implement such a change if they didn’t feel it necessary? It’s still dependent upon a 3/5 s majority isn’t it? So if the majority are happy with their lot it wouldn’t be needed? This change was presumably intended for those who are struggling with problems associated with bad renters ( or owners) wasn’t it?

I think there must be a fairer way to deal with holiday rental owners than just charge them all discrimination fees. There are ways to encourage holiday renters to behave civilised. The procedure of registering guests in your holiday home with the police https://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz/how-to-registering-guests-with-the-police-in-your-holiday-rental-home should be made compulsory, unfortunately this registration is rarely done. The refundable bond system seems a good idea, €100 for  French, German and Spanish and €1,000 for Brits. All guests must hand in their passports to admin on arrival. A rules of behaviour sheet must be displayed in all holiday rental properties.