Holiday Rental Owners Please Help

Holiday Home Rental Owners only (not long term)

I really would value your opinion on the numbered items below

I have been a forum member for over 3 years, but I have started this new identity so there is no conflict between advertising and getting your opinion. My true identity has my website etc on it so hence I'm not using it, please also don't pm me as I am not touting for business as I respect the forum rules and I will not PM you (I don't think I can with a newbie identity anyway).

Justin and team - This is not advertising, there are no names, tel numbers and no pm's, please do not remove this post, it's important for Owners and area's of Spains economy.

Why should you offer your opinion?

There are Owners out there suffering with a lack of rentals to the point of getting repossed, this kills me, it doesn't need to be like this! However i want your opinion on what you the Owners really want!!!! I know what I think is the answer, but it's you the Owner that can only really give true feedback.

I am trying to create a service that will bring prosperity and value to the area an Owners property is based in and to the Owner to stop these repo's and actually help them make money. Eventually help aid an increase in property prices due to area popularity and much more. Yes my company will make money in achieving this, but we will help a hell of a lot of Owners (maybe you one day!) and cater for a lot of happy holiday makers

I want to hear from Owners that rent their property out for Holiday Rentals across Spain (Murcia and Costa Blanca especially)

So here goes.....

Please could you answer one or even all of the following

1. Would you pay upfront for a huge marketing package that is heavily discount (30%+) on the top websites such as holiday Lettings, Holiday Rentals, EOS to name but a few (21 in total, 11 different languages, 11 different countries) etc or is paying upfront a big no no?

2. What is your main bug bear or issue with renting your property out, i.e. lack of rentals, poor cleaning, poor tenants, bad property managment etc

3. Do you want to handle your own enquiries and rent payments or would you rather someone else did it!

4. How do you feel about Property managers charging an annual property management fee, do you understand why or do you resent it?

Thank you for taking the time to read this post, please contribute honestly and genuinely, this is not about helping me run my business it's about giving you guys, the Owners, what you really truly want.

Thank you again

Hi Parcela,

I'd like to nswer your question. I am not a rental owner. I am a property professional and entrepreneur and I also think hard about what my customers want. I sympathise with your position. More often than not what people say they want isnt what they buy which is presumably why market research companies charge high fees.

If I were a holiday rental owner I would want results ie money in my pocket without having to think about it. So my problem is this. I could do it myself, post adverts, be active all over the internet advertising my property but I dont have the know how (its probably scares me a bit), I dont have the time because I have a job and a family, and although I dont know it I probably dont have the right attitude especially if I'm on my uppers and stressed out about it.

So what I want from you isnt choices about this package or that package but a guarantee that you will let my property. I want you, as my professional advisor, to tell me what needs to be done and more importantly just get one with it without asking me to make any decisions. I know you cant use the word guarantee but as your client thats the word I'm looking for so you need to get as close as you can while still being in integrity.

The simplest fee structure surely is a percentage. That way I know you're on my side. No letting -  no fee.

So although how you do it is superficially interesting all that I care about (as your imaginary customer) is results and that is more money in my bank account using you than not using you.

Hope this helps.

1. I won't pay up front for advertising again. I got caught out by Holiday Lettings and it proved to be an expensive white elephant. There are plenty of free sites out there and one of them brings in the majotrity of my Spanish guests every year. My paid for site gave me a 3 month free trial before I had to decide to use it. I got 2 good bookings from the freebie, but none since paying!! Thereis one site that is working on a pay per enquiry basis. unfortunately the owners are not marketing it and it is poorly optimised. The idea is a great one though.

2. My main bug bear is that Spanish guests expect to leave a security deposit on arrival and collect it on departure. This is something I will not be doing in 2010 because for 2 consecutive years, items have been wilfully broken and hidden.

3. I handle as may of the enquiries as I can but have to hand over to a friend that is fluent in Spanish. She tae a small cut, much less than an agency would and the guests have the peace of mind of being able to speak to someoen in their mother tongue.

4. Our keyholders charge us an annual fee on top of the cleaning fee. We get a regular inspection of the property and any little problems fixed there and then. All in all, we have a good team working for us.

Mark

Hi My biggest problems with renting is that agents want a cut of the rent but are not prepared to take on the responsibility of acting as MY agent.  They seem to be acting for themselves.

I had Spanish people in my apartment once and will never rent to Spaniards again.  Not only did they break things, almost caused a fire in the kitchen and take things that they liked, but they actually had a dog in the place when I specifically told the agent that no pets were allowed. 

Agents seem to forget that their client is the person who pays their fees and for that they are expected to act in a professional way at all times. Not being business-minded or professional, they're too frightened to lay down a few rules to tenants and will walk away from problems.  Owners who live abroad, have no comeback and no help.

You won't find many owners ready to pay upfront for anything - too many of us have had our trust betrayed by dishonest conmen.  I think everyone on this site has been stung by Ready Rental Properties!

I handle my own enquiries and have someone on the coast who cleans and sees to minor issues.  So far I don't think I will need the services of another agent.

I am a property professional in the UK who has had to go through the mill of getting fully qualified and become a member of the RICS to get anywhere near a property. The company I work for has been around for over 112 years (not 112 days!) and they demand the best surveyors.  The collective mentality of people trying to set up in Spain is to get rich quick for very little effort and until the industry is more tightly regulated to protect the public, there are still going to be the uneducated mob who think that Spain is an 'easy lay!' Apologies for the crude analogy, but it works.

Answer:  I'm not necessarily looking for a professional, what people want is someone who is concerned about looking after their professional reputation, integrity and looking to still be operating in 50 years' time.  A bad reputation will spread like wildfire and kill your business within weeks.

Businesses collapse because they have no viable business plan, insufficient capital and no banking support.  Relying on clients to pay upfront to fund your business is a no starter!

No amount of money spent on advertising is better than a word of mouth, first hand reference.

www.golfapartment.co.uk

None of this sounds good to me.

Hopefully not all rental agencies are tarred with that same brush.

Homefinder

Summer1010, Homefinder, Marksfish and John Wolfendale thank your ever so much for your intelligent and honest posts.

We get regular feedback from our customers and are always looking to bring more value, the point of the post was to get an insight from those not biased towards what we do (or even know what we do for that matter) just to see what the general opinion is of those that Own and know about property in Spain.

You guys (meant as an affectionate, not solely male directed term) named above have achieved this and hopefully any Agents reading this post will focus more on the needs and wants of their customers as a result of your opinions or continue to do so if they already are.

I eagerly invite others to have their say/opinion, it does matter and this post will get read.

Thank you again

Your Valued opinion

We are only just emerging from a horrific year after our property was let to a tenant who did not pay any rent or utilities for the whole year.  We were renting for 11 months, she was there over a year and we had to pay her to leave!!

She and her family have vandalised the property and we have been left with over 3000 euros in utility bills to pay.

We are new to renting as this is our first property, and agreed to rent and have it managed for us through Casa Concierge, they let it through a third party without our knowledge who we had never heard of. We were told this is common practice.  The letting agent who found the  tenant, Rental de Sol, took the first month rent as a 'finders fee', did not collect the correct security deposit because the tenant did not have enough money.

We did not receive any contract from anyone until 2 months after this person moved in, but that time we had many problems. The contract was never sent to us to be signed and was never signed.

We said no pets, the tenant had 8 cats

Our house had some snagging problems, some serious, but neither letting company wanted anything to do do with the problems as the tenant was very difficult.

The nightmare goes on as we now have to get the house repaired.

Beware of agents unless you know someone using them who can vouch that they will look after your intersts and your property.

Yes, good advice is not to trust the rental of your property to anyone you don't know.

If you are new o the area then good advice is only to trust -

a) A REGISTERED rental agent.

b) A QUALIFIED estate agent API, GIPPI (are there any others?).

c) A QUALIFIED Administrador de Fincas.

That does not necessarily mean that nothing will go wrong but at least you have an outfit that has taken the trouble to be legal and you can complain to the association or authority that registered or qualified them.

HGomefinder

Yes, good advice is not to trust the rental of your property to anyone you don't know.

If you are new o the area then good advice is only to trust -

a) A REGISTERED rental agent.

b) A QUALIFIED estate agent API, GIPPI (are there any others?).

c) A QUALIFIED Administrador de Fincas.

That does not necessarily mean that nothing will go wrong but at least you have an outfit that has taken the trouble to be legal and you can complain to the association or authority that registered or qualified them.

HGomefinder

In terms of rentals I always advise that, as part of the contract, it is good to hire an Insurance policy for unpaid rents and submitt the contract to arbitrtation rather than Courts.

Best,

Maria

A helpful distiniction to make is between people who behave well and people who behave badly as opposed to Spaniards or British. There are Spaniards and British who behave well and Spaniards and British who behave badly.

So, for example, if you had Spanish tenants who trashed the place then this is because they behaved badly rather than because they were Spanish. Presumably the right way to think of this is to avoid people, Spaniards British or anyone else, who are going to behave badly.

A helpful distiniction to make is between people who behave well and people who behave badly as opposed to Spaniards or British. There are Spaniards and British who behave well and Spaniards and British who behave badly.

So, for example, if you had Spanish tenants who trashed the place then this is because they behaved badly rather than because they were Spanish. Presumably the right way to think of this is to avoid people, Spaniards British or anyone else, who are going to behave badly.

<p>A helpful distiniction to make is between people who behave well and people who behave badly as opposed to Spaniards or British. There are Spaniards and British who behave well and Spaniards and British who behave badly. </p> <p>So, for example, if you had Spanish tenants who trashed the place then this is because they behaved badly rather than because they were Spanish. Presumably the right way to think of this is to avoid people, Spaniards British or anyone else, who are going to behave badly. </p>

John is absolutely right! There are well- and badly-behaved people of every race, creed, nationality, age-group etc.

When it comes to short-term (holiday) rentals, tenents don't have a lot of time generally to do a lot of damage. As well as this if they seem to misbehaving the rental agent can intervene, with the police if necessary, and resolve the contract - but it hardly ever goes that far!

Long-term rentals are a different story because, as Maria explained, the owner could be stuck with them for years. You can only do what you can and a good idea is to start with a holiday rental for (say) 3 months and then extend it. Also important is to have a healthy deposit (guarnantee) of around 3 months rental, which is held until the end of the contract.

Most important of all, for non-resident owners, is to have a good agent here on the ground. Someone to collect (and bank) the rentals and the utility bills and visit the poperty occasionally. A small commission paid to the agent is money well spent.

I am a rental agent, by the way.

Homefinder

John is absolutely right! There are well- and badly-behaved people of every race, creed, nationality, age-group etc.

When it comes to short-term (holiday) rentals, tenents don't have a lot of time generally to do a lot of damage. As well as this if they seem to misbehaving the rental agent can intervene, with the police if necessary, and resolve the contract - but it hardly ever goes that far!

Long-term rentals are a different story because, as Maria explained, the owner could be stuck with them for years. You can only do what you can and a good idea is to start with a holiday rental for (say) 3 months and then extend it. Also important is to have a healthy deposit (guarantee) of around 3 months rental, which is held until the end of the contract.

Most important of all, for non-resident owners, is to have a good agent here on the ground. Someone to collect (and bank) the rentals and the utility bills and visit the poperty occasionally. A small commission paid to the agent is money well spent.

I am a rental agent, by the way.

Homefinder

 Homefinder, It depends on what you think is a small commission. Reading some of the earlier posts the owners would be better to let the property stand empty.  In the case of Kernow24 the only person making money out of it was the agent! I doubt they would let the tenant in without collecting their fee first. Unfortunately, bad tenants like bad agents give a poor reputation to others, even if not deserved.

I think owners need to look very carefully at what they think they might gain after paying agents, extra repairs, wear and tear, taxes and additional running costs. I doubt the potential gain is worth the risk. Lots have bought properties on the understanding that large rental income was achievable to help pay the running costs. The reality is far from that. No doubt these same agents that sold the property will also rent it for you as well!!

It would appear from my understanding that anyone can set themselves up as an estate agent or rental agent and get away with providing a poor service. I for one will be keeping clear of any rental agents and would rather let my property stand empty than get ripped off!

Yes absolutely Kev2006...get your figures right before you start including all management maintenance and letting costs is vital to a successful investment.

Secondly get referencs and follow them up for any professional advisor. Insist!

The RICS (Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors) have the highest standards of training and the highest ethical code of any professional property institution worldwide. There is a network of them in Spain although they are rather thinly spread.

All members can be checked out online the the RICS website. If your nearest one cant do the job they may be able to recommend someone who can.

I am a member of the RICS, currently not practicing, which doesnt mean to say the RICS isnt the bees knees when it come to professionalsim in property. "Just because I'm paranoid doesnt mean they're not out to get me!"

Key2006n: I charge 15% for managing a lon-term rental and finding the client. It is quite a lot of work and a BIG responsibility. I don't think that is excessive. Most certainly, for less, it is not worth my while. There is a lot more work with holiday rentals and I charge more than this.

It is sad that you should have this poor opinion of rental agencies generally, I wish that I could change your mind. I am registered with the Tourist Authority and belong to a professional association. I do my best for my clients, owners, tourists and long-term renters. I don't have a lot of compalints and there are quite a few others like me.

Regarding rental returns: The best that can be expected is around 2%, a bit more than that with holiday rentals if owners rent directly but then they have to spend alot of time on it themselves. I am basing this as a percentage of the value of the property but then, of course, we had a property bubble which has burst. If we say that any property is over-valued by a factor of 2 x, then the 2% is looking a little better but still not a good investment, even in these hard times.

The opinion of most of my owner clients is that they acquired the property primarily for heir own use and enjoyment and accept the fact that the rental returns only cover outgoings and repairs - not even depreciation or improvements. Those who purchased as an investment, especially those who have a mortgage, now can see the error of their ways. They cannot afford to sell until the market improves, and that could take years. So they go for a long let, which earns a liitle more than holiday rentals.

Homefinder

 Homefinder, It looks like you agree with me that it is not worth the effort.

If you took a modest rental charge of 300 Euros, for a weeks holiday rental. I suspect the agent would take 25%, tax another 25%, giving the owner a maximum income of 150 Euros. Less cleaning and management say another 75 Euros, this would leave the princely sum of 75 Euros to pay all the running costs including, electricity, water, community fees and so. Change my mind I doubt it with figures like this. Yes most of us have bought our places primarily because of the poor quality found when we tried renting one. I'm pleased with our place. I know I will never make anything from it but enjoy the better standard. 

Who made the biggest amount out of the above numbers, the rental agent and the Spanish state. I rest my case!

I'm sure it will be a little bit better for the owner of a much more up market property, especially in the area your based, but only marginally

Kevin