24 Feb 2012 10:05 AM:

I don't see why people feel the need to gang up on someone who has had a different experience to them. I was a bit surprised to see johnzx's comments about dealing with debtors as I know they can be a problem, but if there are thousands of communities in Spain then there is no reason why someone somewhere should not have had some success because of an unlikely combination of factors such as size of community, attitude of administrator, general attitude of owners etc.

Why can people not just say that is not my experience without taking offence. It must be very frustrating if you have been involved in chasing debts for years with little or no success, but there is no need to take it out on someone who has had the good fortune to have bought in the right place at the right time with the right conditions.

I'm sure most people can see that if one person says they have found the process to be easy and four or five say it has been a difficult nightmare then it usually is a difficult nightmare.

Instead of slating him I would be asking what the conditions were under wich he, or should I say his community, had that success.

The link provided isn't really relevant to my original post because I was talking about completed communities rather than ones where the builder has gone bust. Besides, johnzx hasn't scoffed at anything.

My original post was not inflammatory. I know such things go on. I just don't know how widespread it is. I am sure there are communities where there is wrongdoing going on and the vast majority of owners are unaware of it.

One of the reasons owners are unaware of it is that they compare the cost of what they pay in service charges to council tax back home. I think every buyer does it subconciously when they are thinking of buying, but the two are not really  related.

"My community charges are so much less than my council tax back home that I can't be beiing diddled" is so lacking in common sense that I find it hard to believe that anyone would ever say it. But not only do people say it, there is probably a majority of ex pats on every community that think that way.

Say a pack of 20 fags costs seven quid back home and about two in Spain. Smokers wouldn't pay five in Spain just because they cost seven back home. But property owners cant apply that logic to what is spent on or by their communities.

 

 

 

If you search for "What does council tax pay for?" you will see why it costs so much more than communidad charges.

 

 

Thread: Inflated communidad payments.

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23 Feb 2012 9:55 AM:

Thanks for the replies.

Would adding something to what a supplier charges not end up costing him money? If the real cost of a product was 100 and the supplier received 100, but the invoice showed 115 would the supplier not have to pay taxes on the profit made by charging 115, or am I being niave in some way?

It was made easier to chase debts through the courts a few years ago, but it may be that how busy and effective the courts are depends on where you are.

It is also true that a person with a small debt cannot vote at an AGM. People who can't vote can't vote against the status quo, and nothing distracts the decent fee paying owners like a debtors list. Or is that too cynical?

Thread: Inflated communidad payments.

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20 Feb 2012 6:13 PM:

Sorry actcnm, your understanding of my rational is not correct.

My rational is that communities have an income of tens or even hundreds of thousands of euros per annum via community fees.

That is a lot of money and the controls are often far from rigorous, which leaves a fair amount of scope for people who are less than honest to make some illicit money with a relatively high return to risk.

I'm sure most community presidents are honest. It is probable that some are honest, but are taken advantage of.

 

When I was a young person I worked in a pub and the boss told us that someone was robbing the tills. One of the old dears had a sobbing session because she felt the boss was accusing her of being a thief and at least one person thought it must be me because I wasn't bothered at all. It wasn't my money, and it wasn't me that was taking it, so why should I be concerned. I was fairly sure the thief would be caught.

In my experience people who make a song and dance about being honest, or get others to do it for them are worth watching.

I'd get those expenses if I were you.

Thread: Inflated communidad payments.

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20 Feb 2012 2:02 PM:

Thanks for the PM Karensun. I appreciate why you can't put that info into the public domain.

The reason I started the thread was because I felt these problems must be quite common, or at least not rare.

I have been to several meetings where the administrator has had piles of A4 folders and was willing to show anyone who wanted to see them any invoice they wanted to see, but always knew this was pointless.

If the administrator and president were honest then the invoices would show what the job had cost, but if one or both of them wasn't it would show what the supplier and the dishonest party had agreed it should show. That's backed up by what johnzx says.

If there are 18 inches of invoices then there is the possibility that one of them is for something that doesn't even exist.

 

It is always possible to take legal action if the law is not complied with.

Thread: Inflated communidad payments.

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19 Feb 2012 9:00 PM:

Karensun, without naming names could you say what the broad details of the case you referred to were?

Some people in power do think they are invincible. Those that haven't been brought to justice yet probably have some grounds on which to base their opinions.

I would advise anyone who is considering buying to rent for six months beforehand as this would allow time to find out how things work and what costs there are that need to be paid if you were to buy.

Property taxes in Spain are lower than in the UK, but that is not relevant to whether or not communidad fees, which are service charges, are higher than they need to be.

Surely nobody can be happy to have their money stolen because service charges back home would be higher than the true service charge plus the amount pilfered in Spain?

 

Thanks for the replies.

Thread: Inflated communidad payments.

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