Inflated communidad payments.

Is it true that on some communities communidad payments are higher than they need to be so that unscrupulous presidents and/or committees and/or administrators can syphon off money?

Are there different ways of doing this and does it happen a lot, or is it just a few rogues that are responsible?

Thanks for any feedback.

I am absolutely AMAZED that on a first post you should put such infamatery words!!

Communities have a budget which is / or is not approved at AGM. 

At AGM there should also be the accounts from the previous year which have to be voted on ( Spanish Law ). You will recieve a copy of these prior to AGM and you will be able to query any expenditure. 

If you have a problema approach your Administrator, presidente or Committee member and say so. If you have ANY proof of wrong doing go to the Guardia.

 Well said Karensun

Please do not tar us all with the same brush.

I think it's called transparency.

If in doubt get them out - no pun intended!

I also agree with Karensun & dennismundy.

People are often too willing to judge others without obtaining all the facts first.

Noreen 

I do NOT think I said or inferred that stealing from the Community never happens.

What I gave you was a way of checking the expenditure and a way forward if you think wrong has been done.

Thanks for the replies.

My orginal post was based on questions and not on accusations.

I would assume that most presidents and most committee members were honest people working in the interests of their communities. I'd also assume that most administrators were doing an honest job for an honest days pay having been employed because they met the criteria demanded by the community.

However, wherever there are large sums of money there will be temptation. Criminals are attracted to money and there is a grey area between "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" and outright corruption.

It seems unlikely that any person involved in any wrongdoing is going to allow you to follow a paper trail that you could take to the guardia.

You would be surprised, perhaps, to find that often ill gotten gains are found by a traceable paper trail!!

A case I personally know of was proved in a Spanish Court and sentenced because of a paper trail!........................some people ( in power, [any kind ] sometimes think they are invincible!! )

If you, or anyone, has worries or concerns about the handling of Community money, you should say so to those involved. Better still write and send by recorded delivery. Then things cannot be brushed under the carpet so to speak!

I have to say 'thank you' to Silicone for asking a question that was also going through my own mind!  It has been very well answered.  I would like to ask another question on the same theme, as my husband and I are thinking of buying a place in Spain in the not-too-distant future.  We are very wary of buying a place where there are community fees as we have heard that fees can be quite high where there are plenty of facilites available on site (understandable, of course).  However, we have looked at a number of properties on communities and, to be honest, we don't want to pay for facilties that we are not interested in using...although we do understand that the inclusion of them can be an incentive to possible renters eg: swimming pool, green areas, flower borders, etc etc.  So...is it difficult to find a property in Spain that doesn't have community fees, other than a finca in the countryside?  Obviously, we're not thinking of an apartment..but a small town house would be nice.  Even a place with very small fees would be acceptable!  We can't afford to fund a place where fees could  increase year-on-year now that we are close to retirement age.  Also, re renting a place out...is it really true that the Spanish government insist on taking tax payments from 'holiday' property whether it is rented out or not?  How do the goverment know a property is a 'holiday' property?

maddiemack

You are quiet right unless you buy your own plot in the campo with your house or you buy a house in a town, you never , never get away from being in a property flat, detached, semi, townhouse etc with out paying community fees and those of others who do not and have not paid, even if you don´t use the facilites pool gardens lifts security etc.

Obvisually you don´t want to be in a community so perhaps a house in the campo with a genarator for electric and a bore hole for water is the best way forward

nitram

Thanks for your reply nitram.  I had forgotten about the fact that, in these hard times and with many apartments/town houses on newer communities being left empty, not all the fees are paid up-to-date.  How on earth do they manage to keep everything running smoothly, I wonder? Yes, a finca in the campo with its own generator and bore hole would have been fantastic a few years ago...but it's not what we are really wanting at our ages (59 and 64) even though we are pretty fit and healthy!  So, it looks like a town house in a town or village is the way to go....or we could just rent a place and not have to worry about community charges (yes, they must be included in the cost of the rent but we'd only be paying for the time we were actually there).  We've been researching this idea and we're thinking a place in Ciudad Quesada itself (not the outskirts) or Lo Crispin would suit us.  We're thinking of spending 3 or 4 weeks in April there and having a look round...been there once and quite liked it (except for the presence of those ladies? on the roundabouts!).

Do you, or anyone else, know anything about paying tax on owned, rental property? I think this fact alone may put us off buying...if what we've heard is true.

I decided to remove this comment. But please check out what costs are actually real. Not as much as you think.

Guy

Karensun, without naming names could you say what the broad details of the case you referred to were?

Some people in power do think they are invincible. Those that haven't been brought to justice yet probably have some grounds on which to base their opinions.

I would advise anyone who is considering buying to rent for six months beforehand as this would allow time to find out how things work and what costs there are that need to be paid if you were to buy.

Property taxes in Spain are lower than in the UK, but that is not relevant to whether or not communidad fees, which are service charges, are higher than they need to be.

Surely nobody can be happy to have their money stolen because service charges back home would be higher than the true service charge plus the amount pilfered in Spain?

Thanks for the replies.

Silicone................sent you a PM.

 It is interesting reading this thread.

Accounts & Budgets being presented!

Is there any legal action that can be taken if a President/Admin fails to present them?

Thanks for the PM Karensun. I appreciate why you can't put that info into the public domain.

The reason I started the thread was because I felt these problems must be quite common, or at least not rare.

I have been to several meetings where the administrator has had piles of A4 folders and was willing to show anyone who wanted to see them any invoice they wanted to see, but always knew this was pointless.

If the administrator and president were honest then the invoices would show what the job had cost, but if one or both of them wasn't it would show what the supplier and the dishonest party had agreed it should show. That's backed up by what johnzx says.

If there are 18 inches of invoices then there is the possibility that one of them is for something that doesn't even exist.

It is always possible to take legal action if the law is not complied with.

silicone I find your comments very offensive. As a president of a community I usually find that as well as putting in about 20 hours of vountary work per week I am about 500 euros out of pocket every year, ok my own fault for not asking for some of the expenses I have.

According to your rational,  I heard that someone in England murdered someone, so that means that all Eglishman are murderers?

Sorry actcnm, your understanding of my rational is not correct.

My rational is that communities have an income of tens or even hundreds of thousands of euros per annum via community fees.

That is a lot of money and the controls are often far from rigorous, which leaves a fair amount of scope for people who are less than honest to make some illicit money with a relatively high return to risk.

I'm sure most community presidents are honest. It is probable that some are honest, but are taken advantage of.

When I was a young person I worked in a pub and the boss told us that someone was robbing the tills. One of the old dears had a sobbing session because she felt the boss was accusing her of being a thief and at least one person thought it must be me because I wasn't bothered at all. It wasn't my money, and it wasn't me that was taking it, so why should I be concerned. I was fairly sure the thief would be caught.

In my experience people who make a song and dance about being honest, or get others to do it for them are worth watching.

I'd get those expenses if I were you.

So, was it the "old dear" wot dunnit?

And let's hear more about those "ladies" on the roundabouts please