Mac's Poll - Let's Vote

bmillar757 said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 6:41 AM

The two main reasons I am considering moving back to the UK or perhaps another country would be the cost of the Euro and how reluctant Stirling seems to be in recouping it's value from several years ago, despite a constant stream of bad economic news in Euroland and even the contrasting recent growth in the UK economy, this has made the cost of living substantial.
Also as a regular commuter back to the UK from La Costa Del Sol I find the frequency of flights and particularly the times they depart Malaga make it difficult to achieve morning appointments or connecting flights from London. I also find that the last flight of the day out of London is often around lunch time, which again necessitates an extra night in the UK to get the early flight the following day. I don't understand why there are not more scheduled flights from Nov to May when every flight I've been on is packed and often over booked.
However for the majority of the time I do feel that the benefits of living in Spain still out weigh these drawbacks but I am reluctant to invest or commit myself further in Spain at the risk of these two issues worsening even more.

JWhite said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 9:21 AM

We originally purchased a property in Spain in 2005 when we planned to retire there or sell on to fund our pension which is derisory . However as the property market deteriorated and prices fell in both Spain and the UK and we were nearing retirement it became increasingly obvious that we would not be able to fund two places, one in Spain and one in the UK and we had decided that although we would have liked to retire and sell up in the UK two further circumstances affected our decision 7 yrs later to sell. Firstly prices of utilities and food in Spain (basically the cost of living) was going up plus flight prices. We would have always wanted to visit family on a regular basis in the UK but flight prices seemed like they would rise out of our affordability. This together with the fact our daughter was going to relocate to Malaga (in fact she has just sold her property in the UK), meant she would be leaving the UK to go to Costa Del Sol. This meant that although we would both be in Spain we would be 4 hrs apart which seemed ridiculous. We sold our property in Spain in 2012 for less than 50% of the purchase price and have since downsized in the UK to pay off our mortgage, this way we could keep our UK house. Having retired 18 months ago we are now looking to rent our property in the UK to spend time in Costa Del Sol with our daughter.

I think that different people return to the UK for financial, also health reasons but other circumstances can change too as in our case. We both love Spain and will be returning as I say but we would never invest in property in Spain again as it has left us approximately £60,000 worse off. We will either stay with our daughter or rent. Spain is a lovely place but is too volatile in the Euro zone at the moment and means that whereas in the 50's and 60's moving there would have meant a good and cheap lifestyle, financial affordability has taken the most important advantage away (at least to us). I am sure people that have relatives there who can afford the cost of living increases will still want to move there.

fireblade900-1 said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 9:32 AM

Some good points bmillar..I want to be in both countries ...so flight times to Alicante from luton are either too early or too late ...Gatwick offers better times by Easyjet.
Personally as I work from my laptop ..all I need is a very good internet connection ..which means I can enjoy both countries .

jamesensor said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 11:12 AM

Mervyn King the Governor of the Bank of England during and since the financial crisis of 2008 had a deliberate policy to depreciate sterling. He did this by what was euphemistically known as quantative easing. It pushed the sterling rate down from the €1.6 level to the €1.2 level. This has enabled the UK economy to recover more quickly than eurozone countries, including Spain. But the recovery is fragile and many people are still worse off.

The weakness of sterling, which we must accept as a permanenet feature unless the euro implodes, particurlarly hurts people liviomng off sterling pensions in an euro economy. Low interest rates have further reduced pensions and annuities to derisory levels.

Spanish wealth tax must also be a serious disincentive to wealtheir emigrants. In round numbers. Britons own £5,000bn in pension funds, £3,000bn in property and another £1,000bn each in financial and physical assets other than property.

With just over 26mn households, this gives an average wealth of just under £400,000 per household. Depending on just how diligent the Spanish tax authorities are and how wide they cast their net, many of the wealthier Britons living in Spain may find that they are asked to pay punitive levels of wealth tax. Angela Merkel is insisting that Spain tax its way out of its debt situation rather than calling again of German taxpayers. This would induce many to return home.

JWhite said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 11:35 AM

The EU has been the worst "experiment" ever devised by an undemocratic system and dumped onto working class people. I won't call Brussels a parliament because it is a disgrace. It has impoverished billions with his stringent laws and undemocratic rules for the sole purpose of indulging a whim, a social engineering project which has seen billions without jobs, homes and living in some cases out of dustbins. The UK like many other EU countries has suffered at the hands of its stupid laws, taking away our sovereignty, our right to rule and our right to protect our citizens. It has more recently instructed that we should take in as many people that want to come here as possible and keep them the same as if they had paid in all their lives to a system that is now breaking under the strain. That lot in Brussels should be jailed but will continue to avail themselves of even bigger gravy trains than the ones they left in their own countries' Parliaments.

If the UK does not leave, which hopefully with the aid of UKIP it will, the majority of British people will be doomed to poverty, the likes which were only seen in Dickensian times, for the foreseeable future. The NHS is already on the brink of collapse and with no say on "freedom of movement" will inevitably collapse along with the benefits system.

When we decided to downsize and sell our property in Spain we also decided on something else after seeing what happened in Cyprus, to spend the majority of our savings. We worked for 50 yrs and saved hard only to lose £60,000 on property in Spain. We were not prepared to lose the rest to pay off other people's mistakes. My son had it right when he said to us "mom, dad, you have seen and enjoyed the best the UK had to offer during the 60's and 70's when striving to obtain a decent standard of living paid off. There were jobs, houses and the chance to succeed". I feel so sorry for my grandchildren who will never enjoy the chance of buying a home or having a decent job in the future.

A pox on all EU bureaucrats and people like Merkyl and that goes for chancers like Cameron, Milliband, Clegg and Carney who are all happy continue to rob the people who never voted for membership of the EU to pay the price to stay in the EU for their own selfish ends.

jamesensor said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 1:07 PM

There was a referendum on the EU. in the UK. I do not think anybody doubts that if the UK holds another one, in the near future, that the result would be different. The same probably applies to voters in France and the Netherlands.

But it is not the EU which has led to the current impoverishment of many people in Britain. It was the crazy casino gambling, of the banks , mostly based in London, which bought junk US mortgage bonds on mobile and run-down homes as if they were hot cakes.

We have to blame Gordon Brown rather than Brussels for the lax and incompetent supervision of London-based banks. Many Continental and US banks came to London specifically becaause they knew that they would be able to do things that they would not possibly get away with in New York or Frankfurt.

Many politicians in the EU blame the UK for the damage caused across Europe by the financial casino games played by the London-based banks.

One cannot be confident that UK expats will get such a good deal in Spain once the UK quits, as seems increasingly probable. The pound is also likely to suffer a further dop in its exchange rate at least in the short-term after an UK exit.

JWhite said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 1:32 PM

There has NEVER been a referendum on membership of the EU, I know I am 63 yrs of age and only membership of the common market (or rather a trading relationship) was voted on in 1975, the rest we have been dragged into without our consent by successive prime ministers signing away our rights on our behalf and if there was a referendum on the EU, I don't doubt for a minute what the result would be. Most of the surveys give a 40% to leave but I have never been approached in a survey and neither has anyone I know which rather suggests a different percentage would actually vote to leave.

Also I would not agree on whose fault it is that we are becoming increasingly poor. Yes the banks had a big part to play but a big part of our problem is the EU or rather the euro which seeks to squeeze very different countries' economies into "one size fits all" irrespective of their financial systems, tax systems etc. You just have to ask yourself why is the rest of the world doing so well without the EU system ? Look at Switzerland, Norway etc. who are not part of the EU, they are flourishing. The other fault is of course the millionaire politicians who decide policy based on their personal investments and needs and to hell with the people and what they want. A sad indictment of what has happened to democracy in the UK, we have none but still foot the bill for overbloated numbers of profit driven policitians who do nothing to earn their huge salaries and gold plated pensions but have their snouts firmly in the trough at every opportunity, and anyway why do we need them when we are governed from Brussels, but I suppose their ultimate ambition is the biggest gravy train ever, the EU, just like Kinnock and wife aspired to. Most of them here sit on utility company boards and have shares in every big profit driven company in the UK, how are they going to raise and implement policies directly in conflict with their own rich investments ?

I am afraid the UK, much like Spain in fact, is doomed to an increasing level of poverty whilst world stage pontificating career seeking politicians fill their boots with our money !

jamesensor said:
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 5:36 PM

The three founders of the European Coal and Steel Community in 1952 were the German Walter Hallstein, the Frenchman Robert Schuman and the Italian Alcide de Gasperi. All three had been born into border zones of their respective countries, which had been fought over repeately in the preceding 150 years, with massive loss of life. Their hometowns had changed country more than once, within their lifetime.

By coincidence all had German as their native tongue. Nobody who follows European rather than purely British history can doubt that their aim was an united Europe, which would banish war. We can all applaud that noble aim, without necessarily approving of all the ways that it has been achieved in practice.

Winston Churchill shared their views, but was no longer Prime Minister. It was Ernest Bevin who kept Britain out of this first step to an united Europe, by declaring that "the Durham miners will never stand for it."

christos1980 said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 4:23 PM

we have decided to move to northern cyprus and rent, to get out of the eurozone altogether. Quite right we never had a referendum in the 70's and unless UKIP get in next time people in the UK are going to experience much more poverty. I can't speak for Spain, other than I am very skeptical about the Spanish government and overseas savings etc. Do they have a plan in the future to steal money from peoples bank accounts, as Greece did? I am very suspicious of all politicians in the eurozone, as they have made a right cock up of the "experiment". We did think of buying in Spain but over the past couple of years have settled on getting out of Europe altogether.

JWhite said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 5:15 PM

christos, I think you are making the right decision. The Eurozone will be a very bumpy road and economically challenging for the majority of ordinary working people for decades to come as the Brussels mob fight to keep trying to squeeze all the countries into a "one size fits all" economy and will do it despite the impoverishment of billions.

How do they sleep at night, I would love to know, counting their billions and calculating their never ending expense accounts I guess !

christos1980 said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 6:43 PM

I don't think for a minute they sleep at night, all on drugs I wouldn't mind betting:) Seriously though, the writing is on the wall in the eurozone. The main reason we chose Northern Cyprus is for their medical care, it's excellent. And the country and people are gorgeous and friendly and mostly speak English, we're both on the wrong side of 60 and just cannot retain information very well, so a new language would be too difficult we feel to learn.

JWhite said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 7:08 PM

Christos, good luck to you, at the end of the day, all that we all want is peace and the freedom to get on with our lives, to spend what we have earned on ourselves and our families and not to be told how to do either. Brussels reminds me too much of Communist Russia and all countries where people are denied the freedom to live their lives as they wish without interference. I am just glad my grandfather who fought in WW1 and my father who fought and watched friends die in WW2 are not here to see what they have done with the UK. All that pain, suffering and death to watch it all given away by a bunch of greedy selfish politicians who have sold their country down the river for huge salaries and an expense account !

My daughter sold her property last week and is now making plans to go and live in Costa Del Sol, there is no future for them here but I worry that Spain will not prove to be the shangrila her partner remembers from his childhood when he spent his school holidays there with his parents and always dreamed of returning there one day. He is in his mid 55's (much older than my daughter), intends to find work (any work) and they both love Spain as do we and no doubt we will spend many months there with them as we are now retired. I have no illusions about the problems they face but what is the alternative? Staying here and facing much more of the same, scratching a bare living, spiralling living costs and a greedy government looking to snatch as much money from the hardworking as possible to give away to the EU "experiment" and people who come here looking for a handout but if they stay here this would inevitably result in much worse poverty for them, at least there they have the sunshine! We have advised both my son and grandkids to do the same (at least find a country where they are rewarded for hard work), there is nothing left for them here, whether they decide to leave is up to them.

christos1980 said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 7:31 PM

JWhite I agree with you 100% and couldn't have put it better myself. Someone has to stop this greed and nonsense and let's hope Nigel at least gets some seats in the house. The eurozone was doomed to fail right from the start wasn't it? We won't burn our bridges,as I say we are going to rent first and test drive North Cyprus. We can rent a lovely villa with pool for €300 a month, happy days.

JWhite said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 8:54 PM

Sounds even cheaper than Spain ! We went to Cyprus although it was the tourist area of Ayia Napa but it looked a beautiful place, we had a good time and as you say the people were friendly and they even drive on the same side of the road. So good luck.

christos1980 said:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 @ 10:15 PM

Thank you JW. We plan on living in the area of Kyrenia, it really is beautiful. Good luck to you in your choices also. We do have friends living there already and they are in the property business, so hopefully if we do decide to live there we will get a good bargain.

jamesensor said:
Monday, February 17, 2014 @ 7:51 AM

Northern Cyprus has its economic problems too, not least because of a Greek Cypriot boycott on its goods, which is echoed in much of the rest of the world. No serious banker expects the Turkish Lira not too perform more poorly than the Euro. It recently fell dramatically on the corruption allegations against the Prime Minister and much of the cabinet. So the low cost of living should be assured.

Be careful about buying in Kyrenia - which as you say is so beautiful- since many of the houses belonged to Greeks, who will want to recover them if one day the island re-unites - which would happen if Turkey joined the EU.

My father was offerred a beautiful house there at a fraction of its true price by the Turks. He had been trying to buy a Greek monastery on the day that the Turkish paratroops arrived. But the sellers had run away.

christos1980 said:
Monday, February 17, 2014 @ 11:16 AM

Hmm point taken James. It is important to have a lawyer and to check ownership papers etc to ensure they are legal. We have a greek lawyer whose english is impeccable so hopefully when we buy no problems. Mind you, we may decide not to buy at all and rent and see the rest of our days out renting, living off investments in the UK. It is so beautiful though isn't it?

Farnsfield said:
Saturday, May 3, 2014 @ 9:10 AM

Hi Mac75

How many people responded to the poll about returning to the UK?

sooz said:
Saturday, May 3, 2014 @ 1:28 PM

JWhite I agree with every point you have made. We voted for a common market, and not this financial fiasco we have now. I and all my friends here will be voting Ukip, it's the only way to vote now. We're only making plans for Nigel:) The only option left for us baby boomers is, if we have any disposable income or property paid for, is to sell and give the money to offspring a bit at a time, as they're going to get it anyway, and leave enough to live on and let offspring then support us when need be. Simple. Or simpler still, invest in a start up company, then you can claim 50% of the tax back straight away, and if the company works you win and if it fails, you get 25% back from the taxman, yaaaaay laughing all the way to the bank. There's more than one way to skin this cat in the UK and stay legal and not lose hard earned money.

mac75 said:
Thursday, May 8, 2014 @ 1:58 PM

Hi Farnsfield - 362 people participated in "the reason for returning" poll.

And 215 answered the other poll on "problems when returning".

Have in mind a lot of members are still actually in Spain and haven't returned :-)
or live happily between both countries.

tez771 said:
Saturday, July 12, 2014 @ 1:24 PM

purchased wrong property cannot use it

disgusted said:
Saturday, October 11, 2014 @ 12:21 PM

anyone thinking of buying in Spain be very careful. lawyers do not do searches and notaries do not point out problems with properties ie rustic land not to be built on but licences given by unscrupuluos town halls. Its not like UK,they are only interested in the money. We have lost an awful lot of our savings trying to sort out our property.

Farnsfield said:
Saturday, October 11, 2014 @ 2:08 PM

Thanks disgusted for your message. A number of people have mentioned the problems of buying in Spain and the costs involved. I hope that you have managed to sort out your personal problems.