Mac's Poll - Let's Vote

baz1946 said:
Wednesday, December 12, 2018 @ 6:01 PM

Perhaps we get another PM, will the EU then start to make concessions with the new one that they wouldn't do with the old one, that I doubt, the EU can't have us leave, that much we know, so a new PM helps us how?

John Buchan said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 10:11 AM

Leaving Europe for us is a disaster.

Dave11 said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 10:56 AM

I agree John.

Alex said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 1:29 PM

I honestly believe that the Man who created this mess must come back and sort it out for the benefit of the nation. All this idiotic declarations about a democratic choice made by the British people are just to cover their selfishness and ignorance and show no respect for future generation ,who will pay for it dearly.
Istad off shutting the door, Britan should stay in EU and fight inside to make it strong, independent and democratic Union able to withstand some People aspirations to hayjeck leadiroship in this organisation for personal or individual country’s benefits.

mutley51 said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 1:39 PM

Why is that John?
Trouble is you clearly have no faith in your country ( I assume you are British) .
Perhaps look at the facts first.
Clearly a fair and negotiated trade deal would have been preferable but please do not use words such as "disaster" and like some others a "catastrophe" simply because we will have to operate with the 27 on WTO terms. This is how we and other non European countries operate very successfully . Are their economies a disaster- of course not. Maybe you see yourself as a European citizen wanting ever closer ties to this project and that is fair enough. However most do not and you should accept that if you are a democrat. Personally, I cannot stand UK politicians and the lies they spin but at least they are accountable to us and we can change the Government if we so desire. Not so in Europe and that is simply unacceptable. If you think that us leaving will lead to the EU refusing to trade with us, I respectfully suggest you are delusional - Europe needs our markets at least as much as we need theirs, if not more - we operate a trade surplus with the EU so it is not in their interests to pursue a long term "punish the UK position" which they are clearly pursuing at the moment. Have a little faith in your fellow countrymen to succeed in what is a very bright future if we leave the shackles of the EU- one of the most regressive free trade areas in the world.

Jorge1306 said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 2:47 PM

Dead parrot ...she is finished ..deservedly so for her disgraceful war on the poor ...her windrush home Secretary scandal ..the corporate Grenfell manslaughter ...universal credit starvation sanctions ... oh yes Brexit as well ..get your yellow vests on and force her out

mutley51 said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 3:56 PM

She may well be a dead parrot but all this peddling of left wing codswallop about a war on the poor is what is actually disgraceful. Clearly,there is no intention to cause pain and suffering to the less well off in society and it is wrong to politicise this in the way Jorge1306 does. Yes there is a need to do more to alleviate hardship but overall the UK has a fair system which protects the majority of those on lower incomes. Poverty is a misused term and is no worse in the UK then it is in any other European country. For example charitable food banks are just as prevalent in Germany as they are in the UK and it has a healthy trade surplus unlike the UK.
Perverse but in a way perhaps a Corbyn style government is what the UK actually needs- perhaps all the those who feel life would be so much better under a marxist regime will then realise why turkeys do not vote for Christmas.

TerryD said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 4:25 PM

How refreshing to read mutley51's rational and constructive comments. I get the impression that Theresa May is the victim of testostorone fueled envy in much the same way that Margaret Thatcher was, apparently the price to pay for daring to progress to heights in a "man's" world! What T.M. now needs is the support of fellow men around her, not the spoiled out of touch bunch of rich kids who are currrently stabbing her in the back. I have family in Europe and they are at a loss to understand the lack of national interest currently being displayed, as indeed am I. Let's get on with the job in hand and put personal ambition aside until it's done, PLEASE.

Mugshot said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 7:40 PM

baz1946 you say "the EU can't have us leave, that much we know", what leads you to that conclusion I wonder?
It's true that the EU doesn't WANT the UK to leave, they have been very open about that since the beginning of the whole debacle.
However, the UK just doesn't seem to know what IT wants. The population is divided, parliament is divided, political parties are divided, the government relies on it's survival on extremely conditional support (at a financial cost to the exchequer of £1.5bn) on a group of right wing extremists and the Prime Minister is entirely hamstrung by the whole situation.
In contrast, the EU position is and has been entirely consistent from the beginning. There will be no more "concessions" as the EU simply can't make any more "concessions" without undermining the foundations. The UK has adopted a negotiating position of cherrypicking the benefits of EU membership but without any of the responsibilities. Good luck with that. Because the UK invoked Article 50 it was negotiating from a position of weakness from the beginning.
Regarding the "backstop" arrangement, it isn't something that can be negotiated. It is merely confirmation of the arrangements already existing in a legally binding international treaty, those who seek to "remove" it see it only as a convenient vehicle for opposition to the deal that Theresa May has negotiated.

John said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 9:02 PM

Well said Mutley51.

baz1946 said:
Saturday, December 15, 2018 @ 9:43 PM

Well Mugshot the EU can't have us leave because it knows that if we do leave and prosper other countries would / might get the idea to leave, the EU already knows some are disgruntled of the way it works, us leaving may well be the starting of the end of the EU, not mentioning the money loss.
Of course all this depends on the type of deal we end up with.
The population is not divided it voted out and the government and the EU has done all it can to make sure that might not happen.

Carlos21 said:
Monday, December 17, 2018 @ 9:04 AM

baz1946 said: "The population is not divided it voted out"
I must have missed that one? The referendum result I saw was roughly 52% OUT and 48% Remain? I'd say that's pretty well divided and not a clear majority that would get any party into power in a General Election so yes, pretty well divided. Maybe you saw a different referendum result? Indeed most of the current polls (if to be anything to go by) now show there is bigger swing to remain if we voted again, far greater a percentage difference than the referendum result, but we have come this far so hope a deal can now be struck with Parliament to end it and get on with damage limitation