The overall Corvera situation

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Corvera Golf And Country Club forum threads
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11 Oct 2008 12:00 AM by fizzler Star rating. 38 forum posts Send private message

Hello folks,                                                                        WITHOUT PREJUDICE

I have just sat and typed out a very detailed submission for your consideration but for some reason, just as I was checking through it, the blasted computer dumped it and it had taken me the best part of two hours to compile VERY carefully.

I simply cannot face having to do all that again so please forgive me but here are the salient points without all the supporting good English text:

1) My Abogada insists that there is NO walking away.  I will be pursued and even if I die of worry, the wife will be similarly pursued until the developer recovers their contractual/financial dues.

2) The developer can extend for another three or four months after the expiry of the 18 month build period..... Oh Yes!

3) The developer knows that we are all concerned and that rumours abound but they NEVER come out with a regular (bi-monthly) update, nor do they offer an avenue by which such rumours can be addressed openly and in full.  The resounding silence borders upon a form of conceit at least.

4) I have noted all the comments from individuals about contacting their Solicitors for advice, including the ever-popular "running away" scenario.  Has not the time come where we should ALL be thinking of enlisting the services of a reputable and reliable and most importantly, INDEPENDENT  (if costly) Solicitor/Barrister to represent us formally and with immediate effect?
  
How do we manage this and ensure that everyone pays their fair share? Well, that's always going to be a problem as there will always be folks who will sit quietly by and let others do the work and foot the bills but we MUST do something effective ASAP.  It'll just have to be an honour system.

There are over one thousand homes sold on Phase 1 and 2, which means a similar number of owners. If we employ a synergistic approach, rather than this awful self-destructive and fragmented worrying all the time, we can bring the developer to the table and into public account.

My own Corvera representative has earlier assured me that all of the rumours ARE just that, RUMOURS.... but within that statement, there is no denial that perhaps some FACTS, which are perceived to be rumours are glossed over. 

She asked me to pass on that anyone with any problems either perceived or real, should contact the office directly and I have passed that message on in an earlier posting. She does a very good job and is very helpful BUT when she tells me that EVERYTHING is going according to the original plans and timescales, only a saint would not draw a deep breath of reflection on what we see and hear.

Anita advises us not to panic and, as I have similarly urged in the past, I agree BUT we now have only a very short time to go before legal Completion of the first properties and our TWO are among that number.

I am not panicking when I urge you all to become a cohesive group right away, "The Corvera Owners Group" or whatever and to begin direct contact with the management of Corvera and Calidona, preferably via our newly appointed Solicitor with open discussions and results published on this forum or perhaps by e-mail listing.

Our legal advisor should be fully conversant with and able to advise upon  "running away", be similarly able to advise on possible apparent breaches of contract or whatever else it is which keeps generating such concerns. Unlike our local Conveyancing Solicitors/Abogadas,  he/she needs to be someone who is independent of the property market and who is not influenced by vested interests or, dare I say, closed, elitist  "clubs".

5) A visitor to the Corvera Internet website today, will still be offered all of the originally specified amenities and services which we all signed up for.  My Abogada advises me that although we are all undoubtedly lured by the promise of such facilities etc, our actual individual contracts are simply to facilitate the sale/purchase of the property. Other items such as hotels, swimming pools, riding stables do NOT constitute a part of our contract but I submit that even under Spanish law, there are very definite implications that our decision to purchase is based in large part, in addition to our selected properties, the "lifestyle" resources promised and that we have therefore more than a right of reasonable expectation that once we have committed, these facilities WILL be provided as outlined AND within the timescale defined at the time?

6) Would our newly appointed Legal Eagle be able to gain access to a detailed list of all owners by means of which he/she can thus contact ALL owners and draw us all into one cohesive group at the earliest opportunity because despite being urged not to panic, which we are not, the time will fly past, especially when we consider that we have Christmas and the New year to contend with too?

7) Rather than "Panic", these suggestions represent a cool, clear and constructive anti-panic measure and should lead to all of us being able to question, probe and clarify in good time, rather than being treated in accordance with the old mushroom analogy, where "You leave them (us) to stand in the dark and every now and then, you just shovel in a few spades full of %&^$# ".  We need to get in control of this mess.

8) Our so-called regular updates and newsletters tell us NOTHING and do not address the issues of concern on open forum.  All I learned form the last one was that our favourite golfer (no, I do not even play golf!) has got a sore back!!!!  Oh PLEASE!!!!

As a direct result of the collapse of the Spanish housing market and earlier heavy financial losses brought about by the Fat Cats who are again wreaking their havoc today, plus the apparent failure of Corvera to evolve in accordance with the promised plan at the time of purchase, (along with the heavily anticipated re-sale potential/rental options) my wife and I have today been forced to place our new home in Australia on the depressed housing market as this is the ONLY way in which we might be able to deliver most of our Corvera funding.

I am aged 65 and cannot qualify for a mortgage, and even if I did, I wouldn't be able to afford it!  If anyone needs to run away, it is I !

Although I would enthusiastically support the appointment of our much-needed legal advisor AND pay my dues in that respect immediately (which should not be done at a budget price as we need top quality advice), I very much regret that am unable to tackle any of the related administrative tasks involved, which could all be dealt with by our agent anyway, as we are now involved in all the hated nausea of yet another house move and back into rented accommodation after having built this home of ours in Australia.

Please also believe me when I advise that trying to get hold of good reliable information on such matters as overseas investment advice, tax regimes etc outside of Australia, is just the same as asking a Texan if there is anything outside Dallas or Houston!  Forget it.

SYNERGY and COHESIVE, SWIFT ACTION.....NOW, is what is needed.

Thank you for considering all the foregoing.  With best regards,  Fizzler.   Yes, I've pretty much written it all out again anyway!

(Apologies for the use of underlining and bold print, which are not to be interpreted as "shouting" as is perpetrated by the computer nerds, but good old English language application for emphasis).


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11 Oct 2008 2:50 PM by Anita Star rating in Surrey / Corvera Gol.... 500 forum posts Send private message

Can someone please tell me if I have missed something along the way.  I am really confused about what is being said on the forum.  Perhaps I am being naive but what is it that Calidonia have actually done wrong since commencing build.  I really am being honest when I say I just don't understand why purchasers are worrying so much.  If it is about obtaining a mortgage in the current climate - I totally understand that, I am concerned about this.  But that is totally separate from how Calidonia are progressing.  From what I understand the builders are continuously working and going by the photographs on the website, and visits made by other purchasers, that has been proved.  If you are worrying about the development not being completed, that has always been a worry as it is off-plan - but you can't and never could do anything about that.  So other than that, please tell me what the problem is.  I know we don't get updates through e-mails or letters often, very rarely actually.  But what is there to tell.  We have been told that completion of Phase I will be around May/June 09, on top of that Calidonia are allowed three months grace.  It really looks as though they are on track for that, going by the photographs anyway.  We know the golf course won't be completed until the end of 2009 and then probably not playable for a couple of months.  We also know that, correct me if I'm wrong, Phase II properties will commence completion around end of 2009.  Because of comments posted, it has now been noted on the Roda site and someone has said, looks as though Calidonia are on the verge of collapse.   I know someone is going to shout me down for saying what I have, but I am not saying anything to purposefully upset anyone, I just really don't understand what is is that Calidonia have done to make people feel so concerned about the future of the development 

However, I do think that clarification of whether or not you are liable for 100% of the purchase price is essential, as there will be purchasers out there that will not be able to complete due to the current financial crisis.

Anita.




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11 Oct 2008 4:29 PM by MrUnhappy Star rating. 124 forum posts Send private message

Hi Anita - I have often used this forum to gain advice and information about developments on Corvera and it is noticeable that your contributions are always positive and helpful!  I am sorry that the recent discussions concerning Corvera are not positive but please don't necessarily take them as being against Corvera / Calidona per se.

It is however the fact that circumstances for many purchasers either present or potential have changed - credit markets are tight, central bank interest rates are yet to be passed on to borrowers, the "real" economy is on the brink of recession.  This naturally means that demand for luxury lifestyle apartments will fall,some purchasers who committed themselves many years ago (when credit was easier and exchange rates more favourable) will not be able to afford to purchase and have little chance of resale, people will choose not to holiday on resorts that are not completed and so on.

I think that we can all be confident that Calidona will meet the 2009 deadlines.  Building will be progressing at a pace (there will be surplus construction workers available) and moreover they will want to secure the 70% payments from the 1000 or so units that they have been estimated to have sold.

The real issue is what happens after this.  How quickly the UK / Spanish housing markets recover is anyones guess.  It will also take a long time before people are generally confident enough to purchase property outside of the UK.  It looks like the rest of Europe is either in or about to enter recession.   As a result it looks unlikely that Calidona will be able to sell any more apartments for a long time let alone get permission and then build them.  Add to this the fact that they also need to find the funds to build all of the facilities such as Club Houses, Hotels (including Roda), sports facilities etc.  Then it looks as though Corvera will be a fairly desolate place for a few years to come.  Of course I am just guessing this (I'm not try to scare-monger or create rumours) but if the debacle witnessed on the Phase 4 Roda forum is anything to go by then I might well be justified in my predictions.

Ideally it would be great if the purchasers could work as a group to pin down the developer to get a firm commitment to complete the resort.  However they are in business and their main aim is to make a profit (or indeed cut their losses).  It is not beyond the bounds of reason that they may delay the development for a very long-time - take their third project Ballabona as an example.  The market just isn't there at present.

It might be that the resort is completed in a reasonable time but this may have to involve heavily discounted sales prices.  It might well be that they cut their prices more than 30% - in which case it makes sense to walk away and come back later when it is complete as you will not have the interim financial costs.  However if everyone bails out then the project may not be completed at all!

In the meantime Calidona will be busily hiring lawyers to make try to enforce people to complete and scaring the living daylights out of people in the process.  Any contact with the Calidona offices will reinforce this.  One might argue that they have been irresponsible in many instances by allowing people to sign multiple purchase contracts in the first place without arranging the appropriate credit checks and now it may come back to haunt them.

It's just my opinions - some people will undoubtedly disagree with me - that's what forums are for.





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11 Oct 2008 5:27 PM by Anita Star rating in Surrey / Corvera Gol.... 500 forum posts Send private message

Thanks for that Mr Unhappy.  I totally agree with everything you said about the current financial situation and agree that it is a worry as to whether or not the development will be completed and also the timescale.  The only point I was trying to make was that this is not Calidonia's fault - which I also think you agreed with (excuse me if you don't).  It would be very naive for anyone to think that the current global financial crisis has not hit Calidonia.  But this would be the same for other developments in progress.  I do worry sometimes that comments are being made about Calidonia/Corvera that would deter potential purchasers from purchasing, thinking they could find an alternative development to invest in where there aren't so many problems.  I just don't think that is the case.  I am sure there are plenty of other developments at the same stage as ours and plenty of purchasers worrying about the future for the same reasons.  At the moment we don't have any solid reason to suspect that Calidonia are suffering to the extent of other Developers who have fallen or are about to fall.  I just feel that this should be said in defence of Corvera.  I hope I have not offended anyone.

Mr Unhappy, I hope you become Mr Happy very soon

Anita.


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11 Oct 2008 5:33 PM by kev2 Star rating in Swansea. 201 forum posts Send private message

I have to agree with Mr Unhappy,  I do not believe that Calidona has done much wrong recently ( although they have informed me that it might be some weeks yet before I get my bank guarantees that ran out at the end of September), the development is progressing nicely, but the economic situation has changed. Also It would appear that they will not sell nearly as many apartments as they thought they would ( they appear to have currently stopped selling them).

 I'm not sure exactly what percentage of apartments they have sold but say it is 60-70 % ,this will leave a large hole in their projected income, no one can say for sure but a business will typically respond by making cut backs ( after all the original facilities were based on all the apartments being sold), if this is the case it's likely to be the facilities that are effected or there will be a considerable delay to their completion. This may not happen but I think under the current circumstances there is a reasonable possibility that it might , and we should be prepared for it. I hope I'm wrong but we should not just believe that the economic recession that's coming, the credit crunch and the lower than expected sales at Corvera will have no effect whatsoever on the development.

On top of that of course mortgages will be difficult to get ( and will they give 70% of the original price?), probably more expensive and prospects for rental income poor in the short term (and prospects for resales very poor in the short term).

I just feel that we should be looking out for  problems that  realistically may arise under the current circumstances  and within reason prepare for them. I went into this development very positive believing it would be built reasonably quickly and I was told to expect a 20% return per annum on my investment,  I was told that I would have no problem  'fliping' one of the properties for a good profit after year 1 or 2 ( unfortunately my positive thinking did not make it so), I wish that someone then had pointed out the potential pitfalls and downside then.

As has been stated before there are different types of investors,  the lifestylers who if they can easily get a mortgage or do not need one, are likely to be much  more positive, the investors especially those who were not in it for the long term will not be nearly so positive.

kev


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11 Oct 2008 5:57 PM by Anita Star rating in Surrey / Corvera Gol.... 500 forum posts Send private message

Just to add to what I posted previously, I feel that my posting has overshadowed Fizzler's suggestion of a Corvera Owner's Group.  I think that would be a very good way forward.  It will definitely be needed as the development progresses, although each Phase will eventually have its own Community.  I am happy to be part of such a group.  If anyone else feels this would be a positive move and can suggest how we get started please post.

Anita.




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12 Oct 2008 5:39 PM by difi Star rating in Roda Golf . 146 forum posts Send private message

We have to agree with Anita  - and with Curtis on the "Liability & Walking Away" thread - in that we do not think Calidona have done anything wrong since commencing the build, apart from adopting the inevitable Spanish culture of delay, procrastination, and lack of feedback. This was always to be expected and, to be fair, was undoubtedly due in some part to bureaucratic vacillation on the part of the Town Hall planning authorities.
 
Obviously, like the rest of us, Calidona are victims of the disastrous and unforeseen global economic collapse. However we have just returned from a few days in Murcia during which we visited both Corvera and Roda. It was very reassuring to see that there is a great deal of activity at Corvera in terms of both building work and golf course layout. A day spent at Roda also restored our confidence in the high quality of the Calidona brand in terms of build quality and a pleasant atmosphere around the development which we hope will be equalled if not bettered at Corvera. Yes, there have been glitches and they have had problems, but the staff say they have learnt from their mistakes on Roda which should ultimately benefit us Corverians. We actually stayed on one of the huge Polaris resorts (won't say which) and can only say that it bore no comparison whatsoever with the far superior standards at Roda.
 
Having said all this we do think some kind of owners club as suggested by Fizzler and Andy is an excellent idea – not only in presenting a united front when addressing concerns with the developer but also in terms of strengthening our purchasing power. So please count us in.
 



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13 Oct 2008 9:10 PM by rickp Star rating in High Ongar, Essex. 36 forum posts Send private message

Hi I have just posted my main comments on this subject on the "Liability & Walking Away" thread, possibly better suited to this thread.

I am in the same boat as the rest of you, worried about potential problems of the resort not being finished as we all were told.

I was told on friday at Corvera, (just got back) that all work on the "urban area" has been stopped until more property is sold.

I would have thought that Calidona would sell more property down the line if potential punters could see the finished "urban" area with bars, tennis, stables etc rather than just "grassed over" areas or even worse an abandoned building site.

One thing the Spanish do very well is the abandoned building site look, great for renters!!

I, for one will not be happy until I see some real work going on in those areas, never mind trying to finish my apt to get my money, we want action on all fronts.

Rick


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13 Oct 2008 9:36 PM by perse Star rating. 67 forum posts Send private message

Hi Rickp

did you see any work being carried out to the golf course or buildings when you visited, were there many workmen on site, have they sowed the fairways, sorry about all the questions but havent had the chance to visit corvera for some time.
did they let you go onto the site or could you only see from the car park etc.

dave




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13 Oct 2008 9:56 PM by rickp Star rating in High Ongar, Essex. 36 forum posts Send private message

Hi, 
We visited Friday and the weather was foul, It felt like a foot of rain fell all day Thursday and it had rained 30 mins prior to our visit. The ground took the soaking!

We could not gain access to the site itself, we asked to be taken down there but our request was refused on the grounds of safety!!!!

We could only see from the carpark next to the show flat. As our apt is more or less in the block directly in front it didn't matter so much.

Sorry I may have this slightly wrong as we got a lot of info and it all goes in one ear and out the other. I think they said that the fairways were just about to be seeded.

The landscaping had all been done and tons of earth moved. All the roads looked finished with curbstones etc. These was a small roundabout (finished) near the edge of my phase 2 menta apt that should have villas next to it, they have not been started and the phase of villas to be built on the left and right of the entrance have not been started either, I was told that some of them were on hold. 
The phase on the hillside to the extreme left of the carpark maybe ph4?(above mine) have not been started and would not be started either under the current financial situation. I think some were sold but not enough.

It all looked a lot different to 12 months ago on my last visit.
There were people on site but they were working on phase 1 (island) as far as I could see, not my phase. I did not get the impression that there were hundreds on site, more like 50 if that.
There were a few messing about with some machinery around the approach roads and there was a couple on the course itself.
Any other questions, feel free.

Rick



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Previous Threads

New Pictures on Corvera Website - 3 posts
Liability and walking away - 81 posts
Lets work together - 3 posts
look on the bright side - 10 posts
Some good news? The exchange rate!! - 5 posts
A plea for a copy of original advertising literature! - 6 posts
Update 1st Oct - 3 posts
good contact numbers - 1 posts
thinking of walking away from it....things are going to get worse - 40 posts
Recent visit and further delays forecast - 14 posts
Property Inspection services for Corvera Golf and Country Club - 3 posts
Corvera general - 5 posts
Air-con at Corvera - 2 posts
Palmera Properties - 0 posts
World Cup Fever!! - 41 posts
Spain Holiday Rentals - 20 posts
Problems with President, Administrators and repairs been done. - 5 posts
How to get Spanish accent marks on your PC - 14 posts
40% off at Mango in Spain - 1 posts
I have just realised..... - 0 posts
sky hd box for sale - 23 posts
Empty van from UK to Spain - 2 posts
import licence - 9 posts
Furnitures - 11 posts
Mijas Golf to Alhaurin - 2 posts

10 posts were found:


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