Anyone else bought an of plan property at FortunaHill Golf and waiting on completion ?

Hello all UNfortunates,

Has anyone actually flipped their purchase yet?  For those who haven't are you still planning to try and get deposit back?

Anyone going to the meeting in manchester on the 11th?

hi, just been reading through this and wondered if anyone has talked to IAP about the costs of flipping.

From the information that i received this morning there appears to be an addition cost to complete ranging from 14k to 40k depending on the property you choose to flip.

They have the Antonio deposit slated as 50k which i know is not correct, ours was less than that.

These properties are way more than i budgetted for so i do not know what to do now.

Though on the documentation is says that Zero to complete? but the difference in price minus the deposit with a 70% ltv mortgage gives me a whopping gap to find.

i don't think i can afford to flip.

So do i lose the deposit or what. there must be others in this same boat and as you may have guessed from above the longer we wait the only properties left will incur an even greater deposit.

The only thing i can think of is to get a larger % mortgage from someone other than fuel.

Comments please.

cheers,

Chris

Hi

I don't know how IAP work but if your deposit is with the builder are you able to flip directly with the builder?  Is your contract to purchase with the builder or IAP.  From what I have read about IAP their prices seem to be inflated and the builder does seem prepared to negotiate on price and without IAP's costs.  However. like I said,  I don't know enough about how IAP operate or why you have to pay them fees in the first place.   I would have thought they would get enough in commission from the builders. There are plenty of other companies who assist you through the whole buying process without charging fees.

Regards

Madmau

This message was last edited by madmau43 on 3/10/2009.

Hi, I have just had another thought here and i may be way off base but comments please.

If IAP are able to give us a Euro 50K deposit equiv to Sanantonio Fortuna, so allowing us to buy the Puerto ray, Parque tropical apartments then do they have that money back from Sanantonio? Or is this a fictious sum that they have worked out with this new company and they are not really worth the price plus the 50k deposit?

If they have the money back, why can't we have our deposits back?

Should we pay the price today when we negotiated the contracts in early 2006 and item 7 on the contract says we are entitled to our deposit back if the vendor did not meet the contractual obligations.

I am sure further down in this thread i have read that this document is worthless and means nothing.

there are only 4 apartments that are under 190k left in PR,wonder who snapped up those first , PT has none of any value at this price unless you want a 1 bed box.

The value needs to be the same as we signed up, if you look at all the other costs that will be incurred plus what the management company are stating they are quoting max 10/15 weeks first year and 15/20 year two and beyond. Not sure that will stack up to the figures that induced us to buy the fortuna golf in the first place. i really don't want to be throwing more monay after this just to make a lose.

Sorry this is very negative but this is what i see from the information given.

Cheers,

Chris

I think that IAP have managed to negotiate "discounts" equivalent to the €50K - they won't have our initial deposits.

My experience with IAP is not good - I'll discuss in private messaging if anyone wants.

When you flip to a property that is built by the SAME BUILDER, on another development this is purely a paperwork exercise and it doesn´t mean that  IAP have had any money returned

Remeber most agents only et the bulk of their commissions paid after you complete on  property

The fact is that your sales contract is actually with the BUILDER, not IAP and I am aware of a number of people that have negoiated their own deals directly with the builder, including the price

Check carefully the REAL prices for the properties as they are reducing every month, 3-4 bedroom front line golf villas with pool now for less than €250k

Yes contractual terms are that if the property is not delivered, 6  months after the agreed contract date then it is possible to make a claim against the builder, again not IAP, for the return of the money paid and if you had a BG this is an easier but not simple process as you claim against the bank

With no BG you are talking about a process that can take a few years and you may be gambling that the builder is still in business by the time that you get to Court which is why some people are flipping and there is no way to fastrack this so if anybody claims that they can recover your money in 6 months this is not possible

The LAW in Spain requires that the developer issues a BG, your lawyer shoudl has advised you and got this for you and people there have been bringing civil cases against lawyers and the developers where the BG have not been provided and this is plenty of information on this forum under the BG thread, plus details of specialised lawyers

The cost to use an independant lawyer for an action to make a claim against the contract is around €6k and I was always suggest using a totally indpendant lawyer

To date I still have not seen any formal announcement that they are not planning to build this developement which means that you can only make a claim when the 6 months after contract date are reached

Forget any projections on rentals, the market is quiet but it is not impossible to get rental income but you need to do this yourself, have your own website, use the recognised sites

If you look at for example La Cenulica the alternate develoment in Punta Prima this is a high density area with lots of available rental properties and distressed sellers looking to rent to cover their costs and rates avaikable in July/August of €150 per week or long term rentals for €300 per month plus bills

I am sorry that I cannot be more positive about this the real situation and this is effecting thousands of people on a range of developments including San Jose and Peinsa clients

IAP Global are offering a "Switch" property which has nothing to do with the deals we have with the builder at Fortuna, in effect they have said "Forget your deposit" they have found some properties which are not selling and negotiated a discount which, they say, will be equal to the deposits we have paid allready.

I have given up with IAP "Global" as they are not giving us anything we can't get for ourselves.

We went out to Spain "La Finca Golf" to look at a 1 of the 2 remaining "Flip properties" which we had arranged to see via the builder and have taken that in preference to any IAPG option (the other villa was taken shortly after our arangement), so, for us, we should be completing in the next few weeks after what has been one big headache.

So best of luck with the fight, for me i had had enough of sitting and waiting so i went out there and arranged my own deal with the builder.

Foranyone who is willing to go the extra mile there is hope.

Paul

Hi

Dealing with the builder seems to be the best option.  I have mentioned the 2 bedroom town houses on La Cinuelica R16 which the builder now seems to be selling at about the same price as the 2 bedroom apartments were a couple of years ago. and less than they were when we bought our apartment over three years ago.   A lot of them also have the advantage of a good size back garden/patio area.  As for rental we know someone in our area in England who manages to get very good rental via their own website and once a year printing out small advertisement slips from their computer and distributing them through all the doors of their local town in England.  A bit of effort once a year but very minimum cost.  Also people seem happier to rent from someone in England when they know who they are and where they live.  

Good luck whatever you decide.

Madmau 

i would be interested to know what steps you took to contact the builder and look at any alternatives they may have PGEJ.

we are also thinking that we will ahve to source our own but do not want to throw any more money down the drain.

Any information would be great. i would have sent info via Pm but this is not activated for me as yet.

i asume the builder you mention is Sanantonio that was building Fortuna?

cheers,

chris

Hi Chris,

I have sent you a private message with contact info.

Good Luck,

Paul

PGEJ

I have tried to activate the private message system twice but I still am unable to use this facility.We are one of the Fortuna ones who are going to the meeting at Man Airport tomorrow night.

We would also like the contact info for the builder.

Like many others I doubt anything wil come from IAP asa they are not sourcing anything you can do for yourself.

Hi mek,

Have sent a msg, hopefully you can get in via your email contact when they send you the alert.

Paul

Start with their website for contact www.sanantonio.es and ask or sales on the telephone number

Can anybody please tell me how to activate the private message facility.

When I try I get the "apply here msg".  I have tried to activate 3 or 4 times and the system still refuses to let me!!!!

Will anyone be at the Hilton Man Airport tonight?

Hi,

I know some of you have sent me private messages but unfortunately I am unable to open access them. Until I manage to crack the technology I would be grateful if you would just post a reply.

Rgds,

Atomic

Hi all,

I was present at the Hilton, Mcr Airport last night (11/03). I would strongly advocate that you appoint a solicitor as soon as possible with no dealings in the Costa Blanca/Murcia area (ours is based in Palma de Mallorca). You will need to send him/her a copy of the contract you signed with Eurohouse 2010 (Construcciones San Antonio S.L.) and background of your dealings with Plus Advisors. The solicitor will then examine the contract and send a registered letter ("un burofax") to Construcciones San Antonio requesting a reply within (typically) 15 days. If you need contact details of the solicitor we have appointed I would be more than happy to provide them.  

Should any of you be considering a flip to Puerto Rey or Parque Tropical, do your homework! Vera is saturated with new builds and recent press of properties built on land where licences could be revoked in future years, has not been favourable.

Rgds,

Atomic

We did contact San Antonio by email but we have not received any response as yet. i am not really hoping for much here. i think i have made up my mind that i do not want to waste any more money chasing a promise to a property that if not alreaday snapped up must be low chances of being rented.

Looking at the property prices around there are lots and even less than we initially purchased Fortuna. So we have a choice go seek out a really good deal ourselves or contemplate the courts.

There are no other options for us without having to fork out a sizable chunk of change. The whole reason for doing this was it was going to pay for its self and i don't see that happening so the edge has gone off it and we will probably not invest in Spain now.

Unfortunately i live too far away from Manchester to attend the meeting but i did review the slides and it really pointed me to my above options.

Time for another glass of wine i think.

I know that some people are finding it difficult to know what to believe at the moment but as I have already stated I am not an agent and therefoe have little to gain for the property purchases and people flipping

I am aware that some people, via the developer habe managed tlo flip to propertues in other SAN ANTONIO developments and carry over their deposits but they have possibly paid over the odds for the properties based on the state of the market

For people with money it is a GREAT time to buy as there are some real bargains out there, good villa with pools starting at €150k

I also know that a number of people are starting legal action to recover theor money which is a little bit of a ticking timebomb as nobody is really sure if the dveloper will survive or file for administration (bankruptcy protection)

The IAP offer seems to be to move to another development where they have agreed discounts and they must be happy if you do as they have had sales commission on one development and, y you changing to another developer are about to get a chunk from another developer, then sell you furniture, a rental package, AC etc etc etc, at higher prices than you could possibly source services locally for.

As far as the existing contracts are concerned SAN ANTIONIO still have not formally announced that they are not building the developement so, apart from the agreed completion date in the contract, there is no event that will enable buyers to make a claim for non-completion

Contruary to information that you may get from IAP or their associated company you will not be able to rely on rental income to cover the costs of your property in Spain 

Sorry again to be so blunt but this is the situation in Spain at the moment

Sorry but you are wrong in your assumption that we have paid over the odds for our switched properties.

I myself paid €60K less than previous buyers of the same villa's and that was a discount negotiated with San Antonio, it is up to the individual to check out current prices and negotiate with the developer who after all still needs to sell properties.

Paul

Please all be very careful 'switching/flipping' to any other property or development. Just because the property is by another developer does not mean that everything will be hunky dory. Make sure that the cedula de habitabilidad (which will allow you to connect to water/electricity) is already in place. If anybody tells you it is on its way, don't take this for granted! Also check the land the property is built on. If the land was designated as a site for a hotel/apartments then the dwelling must be managed. An accompanied visit is a good idea by somebdy with knowledge of the rental market. Use them to determine whether you will be able to realistically gain an income from it/cover your fixed costs.

San Antonio by the way is still operating and trying to sell their completed properties. I would question why you have not been pushed these properties or is this part and parcel of the game plan?

Atomic