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15 Mar 2009 12:00 AM by searay Star rating. 238 forum posts Send private message

MADRID (Reuters) - Spanish house hunters should wait until at least 2010 before dipping a toe in the market due to huge stocks and recession, economists polled by Reuters said.

 

Five Spanish and five foreign-based economists surveyed this month said prices would drop 20-50 percent by the end of the downturn, or 32 percent on average from their 2007 peak when prices stood three times higher than at the start of the boom a decade before.

 

Sellers face as bad a market as anywhere in Europe, said Veronique Riches-Flores, senior European economist for Societe Generale in Paris.

 

"Prices are ridiculous when you look at the state of the economy," said Riches-Flores, who expects prices to fall 40-45 percent from their peak, and who like six other economists polled said the market would not bottom out until 2011 or beyond.

 

Spain's unemployment rate is around 15 percent as a deep recession worsens, and foreign economists emphasise the country's economic model needs a radical overhaul to boost its competitiveness and unwind the debts that drove a decade of growth. Spain could suffer a lengthy 'L-shaped' recession, bearish analysts warn.

 

Against this backdrop of weakness, Spain has a supply overhang estimated at 1 million unsold homes -- three times the number of households created in Spain each year. Banks are now adding to that by releasing repossessed homes onto the market.

 

A similar Reuters survey in Ireland indicated house prices would not start rising for more than a year, with a risk that soaring unemployment could delay that.

 

All 10 experts said the overhang of empty apartments and half-finished estates around Spanish towns had to be absorbed in the next two or three years before prices gained some traction.

 

"What I don't expect in Spain is a rapid bounce-back," said BNP Paribas economist Dominic Bryant. "Prices might stop falling but you will need quite a sustained period of robust demand to clear the backlog to help prices come back."

 

According to government data, prices only fell 3.2 percent last year, though analysts say this massively under-reports the real size of the fall. Housing Minister Beatriz Corredor said in November they may already have dropped 15 percent.

 

Gregorio Izquierdo, head of economic studies at the National University of Distance Learningsaid oversupply should begin to stabilise in the last quarter of 2009 as a 40 percent fall in housing starts in early 2008 begins to feed through.

 

However economists agreed demand will remain fragile, even when lenders start to unfreeze credit.

 

Speculators who snapped up new builds and flipped them for quick profit have vanished. They made up 70 percent of the market in the boom's latter years, said Inversis analyst Ramon Ortega. Foreign buyers, particularly Britons hit by the weak pound, have deserted, sapping the second-home market.

 

BABY-BOOM DEMAND

 

Intermoney chief economist Jose Carlos Diez said falling prices would help unblock pent-up demand from 30-somethings born in Spain's 1970s baby boom who are priced out of the market.

 

An average 100 square metre new build in a city cost 271,000 euros (251,000 pounds) last year, according to valuation firm Sociedad de Tasacion, while the average wage was 21,400 euros. By comparison, the average German wage is 41,200 euros according to IESE, but the same sized town or city apartment would cost 187,000 euros on average, say German finance group Hypoport

Economists agree Spain will never again see conditions it enjoyed at the start of the decade, when a historic drop in interest rates, bank offers of 100 percent mortgages and soaring immigration turbo-charged the market.

 

"This story is dead, because we will not see such a steep fall in interest rates again," said Ralph Solveen at Commerzbank in Frankfurt. "For the next 10 or 15 years we will not see a return to this (boom)."

 

Spain also has the highest unemployment rate among major developed countries, set to top 20 percent by the end of next year according to think tank FUNCAS.

 

"This correction could take 10 years to happen. A 50 percent fall (in house prices) would not be unexpected," said economist Luis Garicano of the London School of Economics, pointing to falls of over 30 percent in U.S. cities like Phoenix and Miami in the space of a year even though the overhang there was only one year's supply.




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16 Mar 2009 5:54 AM by Mike B Star rating in Los Montesinos, Spai.... 209 forum posts Send private message

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Hi Searay,

Thanks for the uplifting article, great way to start a Monday morning. They say that the truth hurts and..................OUCH.!!!

Well I suppose its baton down the hatches, hope Roda pull their finger out, know that things can only get better (that’s after 2011) and always look on the bright side of life.

Have a nice day

Mike   

 


 



This message was last edited by Mike B on 3/18/2009.

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18 Mar 2009 11:45 PM by barrygeo Star rating. 49 forum posts Send private message

Searay

 

Thanks for posting this article. Thank God I chose Calidona / Roda. In times of recession the golden rule is to invest in quality and thats what Roda is. I've just come back from a long weekend down there. LA MAnga has gone bust and Hyatt are pulling out. La serena hotel has closed down but there is still positive activity in Roda. Some activity beginning on phase 4, shop opened and reports of a commercial area development.

 

Looks like Roda will be one of the better investments and even at the loss of value reported in your article its doing better than my pension fund.

Also saw a number of prospective buyers on site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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19 Mar 2009 10:49 AM by searay Star rating. 238 forum posts Send private message

barrygeo ,

the article was posted as neutral observation on the spanish market , i personally think roda could be a great resort , however unless calidona start to deliver on promises  it is in danger of becoming just another resort and not fulfilig its potential of the 5*resort we all bought into and paid premiun prices to be part of . i agree its great to see phase 4 started (as i am on phse 4) however it is still two years late !! great to see a shop (and i wish the ownrs every success ) as we speak there is no commercial center only rumours as we have heard previously , you mentioned you were glad you were with calidona i would be very greatful for any financial information on them as i am not sure how to get hold of it i am sure if you could post this or pm me with it a lot of people would feel a lot happier in the current climate of developers not delivering and going bust .

ps wish id never seen my pension fund !!




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19 Mar 2009 12:53 PM by barrygeo Star rating. 49 forum posts Send private message

Searay

I am sure that if you need financial information on Calidona you can have your solicitor do a company search.

You discount the commercial center as a rumour. Did you also discount the shop as a rumour or the BEach Club last year, there were a lot of rumours about that too but thankfully it is now open. I met people this week who are directly negotiating commercial agreements to operate franchises in the commercial centre beginning this time next year. For me the evidence is sufficient to believe it will go ahead.

What I do see with Calidona are what looks to me like good business decisions. Delay the hotel and phase 5 until the economy recovers. Maximise return on existing assets by adding a reduced commercial centre and improving access to the club house. Improve the service in the club house and reduce prices to increase business.

This week I took the time to go and have a look at Polaris Mar Menor, La Torre and El Valle and also at Serena Golf where the hotel has closed down down and the golf course taken over as a municipal facility. I recommend that anyone who is investing in Roda should do the same. It will remind you why you chose Roda.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see the hotel built and a full commercial centre but not if it drives Calidona out of business and not to see empty buildings rotting away on site or worse half built.

Roda may not be all that was promised but it is still the best golf resort in the region and while some facilities are delayed the potential remains when (not if) the world economy recovers.

I also appreciate that if I was two years overdue delivery here I'd be frustrated as well




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19 Mar 2009 1:22 PM by searay Star rating. 238 forum posts Send private message

barrygeo ,

i am fully aware of why i chose roda and paid a premium price , however the fact of the matter is calidona have not delivered the facalaties as per there sales lierature and they have had the money in the boom years to do so , they appear to have made a comercial decision to delay the build which is now provig to be a problem and people are dissatisfied with the lack of facalaties afterall we go back to 2003 when it all started is 6 years (4 of which were  boom years) not long enough ?.

whilst i appreciate if you have already completed you have no option but to carry on and be posative or try to sell (difficult in these times ) , i am sure there are buyers around but at what price ? ? i would assume not a lot of demand otherwise calidona would be marketing phase 5 , as far as completion on phase 4 goes i would be happy to complete if i knew that the facalaties would be built but i have no guarantee of this and so far calidonas track record and customer servce do not inspire me with confdence !! , at the end of the day all i want is what i am expexted to pay for is that to much to ask ??




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19 Mar 2009 2:56 PM by Blueboys Star rating. 39 forum posts Send private message

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Barrygeo

You say Serena golf is now a municipal, to my knowledge it has always been

Then you mention Mar Menor and La Torre which are both completed and just recently La Torre opened a 5*+ hotel so what is it you are saying about these resorts

A fully finished resort in the current climate is a much safer bet to invest in than an incomplete resort with a corner shop and a carpark which will have a much reduced commercial center and if I were a betting man would bet on the Devere Hotel not happening




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19 Mar 2009 3:24 PM by shagan Star rating. 103 forum posts Send private message

We completed on Phase 3 last year, this was over a year late.  What were peoples expectations on completion? I for one know that we never in a million years expected to complete on time even before the first brick was laid, we thought it would come in 9-12 months late.  This is just Spain for you.

I know Phase 4 is extremely late, but this is part an parcel of what is going on with the worldwide economy, i expect if it was still all boom and property prices rising year on year people would have a comletely different outlook and would just be happy their place is gaining money when it's not even built.

I may be wrong but quite a few people on here have probably funded their spanish property from the nice equity they've gained on their UK homes, i for one have.  Whilst I was happy to make the most of the boom years i think we now have to take the crunch time on the chin.

We have friends who have a villa on La Manga and they are fed up with the way it has gone down hill, they love RODA and are now looking to buy there.  I'm just happy to have a place on RODA which is by far the best resort on the area.

Stuart

 




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19 Mar 2009 5:12 PM by searay Star rating. 238 forum posts Send private message

shagan ,

with all due respect , it is the 21st century why is it acceptable to have delays just because it is spain ? do they have some problem that other property developers dont ? or were we simply lied to at time of sale , perhaps you could help me out with what other industry it is acceptable to deliver a product two years late and still think this is acceptable practise ? 

as i said in earlier posts i believe roda is capable of being a world class resort if it is delivered as per sales literature with the facalaties in place however the more people who adopt the attitude of oh well its spain it is to be expected is only playing into calidonas hands , people may wish to live on an incomplete resort that they have paid premium prices for or is it the fact that they have completed and have no choice in the matter ? lets remember that calidona have had the phase 4 deposits for over two years .

whilst we all have differing views , i think we all agree that roda is capable of being the resort we were sold and bought into , shouldent we be putting pressure on calidona to deliver the goods rarther than adopting the attitude of oh well it will be ok eventually , after all it is these facalaties that will set roda apart from the other developments in the area , after all at the moment its a golf course with a club house and corner shop are people satisfied with that ?




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19 Mar 2009 5:25 PM by arky25 Star rating in erskine, scotland. 351 forum posts Send private message

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we are just back from a week in roda, and again i came home reinforced in my decision to buy there.

i can understand being unhppy with delays and the hotel being delayed but i would say as long as the comercial center is built then i for one will be happy.

i too visited la torre and i liked there comercial center.

i ask myself exactly what benifit to me would a hotel bring?

to me , not a lot, possibly the de vere name in greater presence?

the downside to me would be the competition for me letting and lso competeing with even more golfers for a tee time.

 



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19 Mar 2009 5:40 PM by searay Star rating. 238 forum posts Send private message

arky ,

the devere name and branding would bring prestige to the development and enhance its standing as not just another golf course , i would question the rentals situation as groups of golfers willing to pay 5* prices dont usually do self catering as for tee off times would more players not enhance revenue for the course ? and hopefully be of benefit to all concerned .




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19 Mar 2009 5:57 PM by Russ W Star rating. 230 forum posts Send private message

http://www.pgae.com

Visit this website and look at the news section.

Alternatively visit  http://www.pgaeprestige.com/

I think this illustrates the huge gap between initial hopes for this project and the present situation. 

 

 



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19 Mar 2009 6:33 PM by JORED Star rating. 137 forum posts Send private message

Hi All

Well put Searay I agree with everyword you have said ,

Nothing I can think of  In any other Business lets  you deliver  2 / 4 years late ?

I truley hope Roda goes from strengh to strengh I am  a Phase 1 purchaser and live in Spain , I just want what was promised

when I handed over my hard earned Cash , Is that asking too much ????

Oh and barrygeo I dont want to get into a slanging match ,but under the thread   re Shop opening 

Did you also actually read what I said ?

I got nothing but  praise and good luck for Sue and her Husband and I shall support it !!!   BUT again Roda swerve and give us a new car park and a small shop , when I paid my money for a Hotel and a Commercial centre and they give us the cheaper option with no sight of the Hotel being finished before 2013

If when I walked into Roda and they told me it will be 7/9 years till the Hotel was finished I would have walked out and kept going

barrygeo you want a friendly bet we dont see the Hotel finished before the end of 2013 ????

I would gladly pay up on the bet, I want to see Roda finished like it was sold to me, it can become the number 1 spot for this region no doubt ,

Regards

 




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20 Mar 2009 7:16 AM by shagan Star rating. 103 forum posts Send private message

I understand all of the points made, but what makes you think Calidona would deliver all the Phases on time at RODA, just because they tell you they will? It doesn't make it right but like it or not Spain is totally different. 

I could tell by the dealys on Phase 1 that Phase 3 was going to be over a year late which in turn would make Phase 4 18-24 months late.  We accepted this and parted with our deposit. 

I hate it just as much as everyone else that we've not got the hotel or the commercial centre, but who in their right mind is going to commit to building a hotel in the climate we're living in today.  I can certainly tell that RODA isn't as busy as last year.

I'm just grateful we've got a great golf course, a great club house, a new shop and work is actually starting on the commercial centre.

Stuart




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Previous Threads

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14 posts were found:


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