Damp walls

 Hi,

We have a penthouse apartment on Phase Two and have a large damp patch on the living room wall to the right of the patio doors. Has anyone else suffered the same problem in their property?  Any suggestions to preventing it happening?

 

Utrinque

Some penthouses have had a leaking roof.

Some garden apartments have damp problems due to garden sprinklers being in the wrong places.

But I've not heard of any penthouses with damp problems of the nature you are describing.

 

This message was last edited by pommers on 17/11/2012.

Hi Pommers
To say we had a problem with this. Would be the understatement of the year! We bought our3 bed penthouse 5 years ago and the day we completed we noticed a damp patch on the wall.we have an outside staircase and thought water was coming in there.. To cut a very long story short the problem got worse an during one rainy day water poured into the apartment walls were soaking tiles fell off the bathroom ceiling it was a disaster. After many attempts to repair including a complete new staircase .we were exasperated.they eventually took down the living room ceiling and flooded the solarium to see where water was getting in. This last attempt seems to have sorted the problem and not had any problem now for 2 years.my avice is to contact housing and report the problem straight away so that they are aware and any problems with building should be covered by insurance.we were lucky that roda were still on site at the time and we got good service re the problem but obviously things have changed. We have a huge solarium and after every attempt to repair and there were many we had to wait on the rain to see if it had worked so it took 2 years to sort the problem.... Our damp patch was on the top of the wall to start with but we have seen apartments where there is small damp patches by the patio doors and I think this is different to our problem but I would still report it regardless.

Celtic - thanks for your feedback. And, yes I did say I knew of some penthouse apartment that had problems with leaking roofs. Your's was obviously one.

Leaking roofs are a constant problem in Spain. On our old Spanish casa pueblo we have been trying to find our leak for 6 years. We repair it where we think the leak is and then wait for the next load of bad rain which can be months and it leaks again, so we try again. And without redoing the whole roof like they have for one case I know of at Roda we will continue to play Catch 22  Unfortunately the Spanish just accept it as a way of life and say "it only leaks when it rains" and put out buckets. Not ideal I know but unfortunately the Spanish way.

Reporting any building defects to the administrators would be a good idea. Although whether we will be able to get the builders to do anything after al this time is more difficult to estimate.

However, Housing have not been the administrators now for 12 months.

The new administrators are Resortalia SL and their contact details should have been sent to you via post and email. The info is also on the P12 website as www.rodagolf-P12.com

 

 

 

This message was last edited by pommers on 20/11/2012.

We had a problem with damp walls in the lounge originating from the solarium originally in 2009 and reported it to Roda who supposedly fixed it, but they didn't.  My husband then thought he had sorted it out but it has now got much worse and I have contacted Resortalia who confirm that they have a record of it being dealt with in 2009 and have sent their Insurers round to look at it.  I have just had this reply:

With regard to the damp problem in your apartment at Roda, we have just received the report by the insurance and the inspector has determined that the damp is the consequence of a defect in the water proofing of the terrace.

Insurances do not cover defects in construction.

I am rather suprised (or am I?) that it is now our responsibility to pay for the work to be done when it was the original construction was faulty.  Who does cover defects in construction? 

 

This message was last edited by yeomans on 24/11/2012.

I would challenge this - it is certainly the case  that although you may not be covered for cause of the damage (and putting that right)  that the repairs to the consequential damage is covered under the community insurnace.  I would really push this - also what happened to the 10 year NHBC type cover that was supposedly in place - if this is original construction defect then it is almost certainly covered under that policy and Resortalia should have full details of that.

Hope this helps a little.

Sandra

 

Sorry Sandra - the community insurance does not cover builders defects. This has been deomonstrated several times.

The cover provided is only that required by law and it is minimal. Do not rely on it to cover future problems - you MUST take out your own buildings insurance to cover major problems but all Spanish Insurance companies seem to exclude this.

There is a guarantee from the builders - but whether they will pay up now is another issue.

Get back to Resortalia and say that their respnse is unacceptable and you wish them to pursue in on the warranty.

Hiya Pommers and all

Just so you know, I had a claim under the community insurance - which paid in full for putting everything right .  The shower in the penthouse - the drain had not been properly fitted and consequently caused this big problem.  Over time the water seeped down the walls through the middle apartment into our shower room and caused a considerable damage - water dripping through the shower room ceiling.

The insurers paid for the repairs, which were quite considerable and included putting right the problem in the penthouse shower room, and removing the tiles in our shower room, replastering the walls, replacing the tiles, replacing the ceiling.  Not sure what happened in the middle apartment but I understand the walls were green !

Now,I suppose it is debatable whether  the faulty drain from the shower was a builders problem or not but the community insurers accepted that it was covered under the community insurance and coughed up.  There is therefore precedent about the cover for consequential damage at the very least but like Pommers we also have our own buildings insurance.

Totally agree with Pommers - the guarantee insurance claim has to be pursued.

Hope this helps

Sandra

 

 

 

 Hi Sandra

 

This leak situation continues to confuse all. I have to say I am surprised the Community Insurance covered damage to build defects in your case, given all the information we are given re damp problems, which all seem to blame build defects and therefore are not apparently  covered. Even owners own buildings insurance have denied any responsibility in one case of rising damp.

I do know that Celtic was extremely fortunate to get plenty of help from personnel at Roda who are no longer there.

There is as everyone suggests, a compulsory 10 year structural warranty but as no one has advertised applying this I have no idea how one goes about testing it out other than visiting the local OMIC office in San Javier which is supposed to deal with consumer complaints, forms are supposed to be available from the developer and if anyone can track down Roman in Roda Services offices he may be able to help.

I am sure, many would be keen to understand why Community Insurance covered your situation but apparently will not entertain other possible claims.

Hi Hugh_man

This was a couple of years ago.  I called the Administrators (who were of course then Housing Comunidades) who then arranged for an inspection by the insurers and it went from there.   I know there was a lot of tooing and froing as the penthouse had to be inspected as well as the middle apartment.  Not sure if the work on the middle apartment was done but I seem to think it was.   I know no more than that I am afraid but they agreed it was covered under the community  policy and did the work (and it was done in my absence as I was not there whilst the work was done).    I can look up the correspondence if you like to see the chain of events but basically as I have outlined that is what happened.

I too would be keen to know why my claim was allowed and others haven't - as you say it is a bit of a mystery.

Sandra

 

 

Hi there

Just been reading through the problems regarding the damp. We have a penthouse and we've found the problem on the penthouses is inbetween the bottom floor tile on the roof and the bottom of the skirting tile, where they meet, what you will find is water gets down behind.  To solve this problem you need a product called sika which is in a tube, with a standard silicone gun.  You have to seal this gap all around, just like sealing an edge on a bath.  We did this down the stair case, and all around where exposed.  We've noticed other apartments and stair cases with bad damp patches on, but ours is ok.  We've not had any damp patches.  Give me a shout if you need any more info.

Cheers

I too have a damp problem on one of the bedroom walls in my ground floor corner apartment on phase 3 which appears to be as a result of a fault in the drainage from the small balcony on the apartment above.

I have contacted Resortalia after my property manager went and had a look (the apartment has been rented out long term for the past year and my Spanish tenant raised the issue). They were quick respond and said they will send (their?) insurers to assess the situation. I will keep you posted on what (if anything happens). As this appears to be an issue outside of my apartment I am loathe at the moment to persue this through my buildings insurance as the defect appears to above me!

Whatman

It would appear that the community insurance does NOT cover repairs to the actual building defect - of which leaks is one. However, it SHOULD cover the material damage caused by the leak.

The 10 year warranty should cover the building defect!

So definitely push Resortalia to help you sort out all these damp claims.

Sandra - that's probably why you got the repair done as it wasn't your leak but damage caused from above!

 That is though, useful information from The Shaws as it appearsd the explanation may in some cases be relatively simple.

Having heard of a number of cases of leaks and damp etc. however it may be that a number of different factors could be the root cause of damp penthouses. Loose tiles, damage to damproofing possibly caused by additions to roof terraces, leaking pipes and so on.

The 10 year waranty is supposed to cover structure and structural elements but is still difficult to proove where the fault lies.

Following an inspection it has been agreed that the  ".......damp is the consequence of a defect in the water proofing of the terrace." 

So if this was a problem caused at the time of the construction, how do I claim against the 10-year building warranty?

 Yvette

 

As previously stated, I know of no one who has actually claimed against this but I would suggest you start by showing the written report to Roman in the Roda office, he has dealt with a number of problems in the past, some on a number of occasions. I do believe he reacts better if dealing with owners in person. It would be useful to try and trace some of these owners privately.

It is conceivable that an independent report from a structural engineer may be necessary as that statement does not fully explain what the defect is.

Is it faulty damproofing, loose tiles, gaps, if any of these, can the source be indentified etc. etc?

Is it possible damage could have ocurred when making additions to the terrace, for example?

Do you have independent Buildings Cover which would provide a report for you? If so, do they provide legal advice?

Other sources of information could be www.belegal.com or www.lawbird.com

There have been a number of local press articles explaining the need for independent Buildings Cover rather than relying on Community Cover which is limited.

Roman will presumably insist the warranty only covers  the structure and foundations but if damp proofing is not part of a structural element, I am not sure what is.

 If not happy with his response, I think you need to ask him for a complaints form, every business has to provide one, which needs to be taken to and formally filed, along with any written evidence at the OMIC office, the Consumer Complaints office, which is located around the corner from San Javier Town Hall, they ought to be able to advise re the 10 year warranty but worth having a Spanish speaker with you. 

I am afraid, once Community Insurers deny responsibilty, Resortalia really can do more when dealing with Roda as they act as Community Administrator only but may be some help for advice etc.

Hope this helps a little.

Hi Chris

Thanks for your reply.  The problem initially occurred in October 2009 and Roda came and supposedly sorted it out.  It might actually have been reported through Roman.  I didn't realise he was still around.  Can you give me his e-mail address please.  The independent builder we have had round says that the problem is coming form one of three pipes behind the wall and the Insurance inspector acknowledges that it is a construction fault.  It definitely was not caused when we had to pergola fitted as the posts are all fitted to the walls and not the floor. 

 We do have insurance cover but will need to read it thoroughly to see what it covers.  I just assumed that as the problem was caused at the time of construction then it would be covered by Roda.  I thought Resortalia might be to contact them on our behalf.

 Yvette

 

It is adifferent Roman to the one you remember and I m afraid I have never met with him and have no contact details. I am told he can be found in the office next to Roda FM

Still sounds strange, as there appear to be 2  different and distinct possible reasons for the fault, as always, who is correct and is it a build defect or just broken pipe or fitment.

A construction fault logically should be covered under any structural warranty but since when did logic apply in Spain and is a pipe leak a build fault or just plain bad luck or bad workmanship?

I am sure Resortali will do what they can with the developer but sadly they have no brief or powers to sort out our problems created by poor workmansip in the first place.

As a Community we are already having to commit owners funds, unfairly in my view, to repairing parts supplying utilities as well sorting out some design faults left by the developer, no doubt similar problems do occur in the UK

 

Best wishes