Healthcare in the UK

Hi

 

Have just spoken to our solicitor who assures us the Builder has now applied for the Certificate of habitacion, she confirmed we were not obliged to complete without it and thought there may be a 15 day delay on our completion date planned for 14th November.

We are still going mid November to see what is actually happening & where the contamination is

Having difficulty contacting your snagger any other contact details available that we could use?

Thanks

Marky

Hi Markly

Looks like we are your neighbours!  We are (will be) no. 50.  Good news about the builder applying for a certificate of habitation - lets hope it doesn't take too long. 

Feedback from our agents is that the contamination is at the back of village near the cemetry. 

We are still waiting for more news from our agents as to the next step - I am sure they are hoping we will just sign on the dotted line even with our concerns.  We too are hoping to visit in the next few weeks, we might make more headways to sort out our issues face to face than via email.  If not, then at least we will get a break!

Rgds,

baggie boy

Hi guys, I am currently in Spain and actually managed to catch the boss of Aride Sur unexpectedly earlier in the week.  I will be no 62 and, surprise, the white goods have been delivered.  That is because he was expecting us to sign on 2 Nov and was annoyed that we didn´t show (but I had told Jose from his office that we weren´t).  Like to bet the white goods don´t stay there much longer! Anyway, his strong accent and my limited spanish aside, we have agreed (and my solicitor is going to confirm this in writing) that we would not completed until the 1st habitation certificate is complete.  He did admit this might be as late as Feb/March 2007.  There is only one other spanish family moved in (and pretty lonely that must be too!)  Aride are v keen that we are happy and are worried that so many english are delaying.  We went through my snagging list and he has agreed to mend most of the items.  We too don´t have the ensuite we asked for but a quick visit to our agents found that they now only had 3 staff and their office is virtually deserted, with no properties advertised, so I hold out little hope.

Personally we are in no rush to complete as we have another property to stay in for the 1 week in 6 I am working over here (available if anyone wants to use it as my job has just moved up to the Murcia area and its too far to commute every day!).

Hopefully meet you all next year . . . webster

PS don´t get bullied into signing - that was tried and I believe if they think you want/have to move they will offer financial incentives in the form of completed a/c so its up to you. Legally they cannot make you sign until the first habitation is issued.  It usually only takes about 30 days but for some reason there are more lengthy delays.  Speaking to another agent in the area it might be the fault of the land registry who cannot cope with the busy market.

Hi Webster (and all)

Thanks for this useful update. 

We have spoken to our agent's representative (based in the UK) today (after chasing them!) for an update on what was happening re our en-suite.  We informed them a couple of weeks ago, that we would not consider completing until they sort this out.

Today, they have come back and said that they will meet us half way with the cost of alterations - this we have rejected, as we don't feel we should pay for something we were told could be easy put in at build and it was not our error that caused the problem.  We will await her response next week (hopefully!). 

Do you feel the issues recently surfaced re the contamination of the area has been 'blown out of proportion' has this still concerns us?

We were last there at the end of August, the complex was progressing well - are the grounds/gardens now complete - are you happy with them?

We were hoping to come out to Spain in the next month although will hold fire on making travel arrangements until we have more positive news.

All the best

Sharon

The site is lovely.  The gardens are well established, the community paths well laid and the pool is crystal clear if a bit on the chilly side!  The changing rooms could do with a bit of a clean though.

The the contamination.  I enjoyed a coffee in one of the cafes near the new square in Palomares.  My eavesdropping skills are not so developed in spanish but the talk amongst the locals was mainly of the torrential rain they had for 5 days last week.  I tried to ask the bar owner about the H bomb and his answer was along the lines that neither his son nor his friend's son's had two heads!  Apparently the fisherman who found the sea dropped bomb is still alive and well.

The actual site is well inland from Palomares, although I didn't actually find it myself.  Apparently it is behind the cemetary and nearer to Desert Springs Golf than it is to our own site.  Short of taking a geiger counter, I am not sure what more we can do. 

You may all be aware that the Junta de Andalucia has put a ban on building on the Costa Almeria for the next 2 years - ostentiably because the land registry cannot keep up but also so that they can work out the impact of the new Murcia road (I think its the AP7) is going to have on the area.  I met with my employer who has moved to Costa Calida (Murcia to Mazarron) (dammit!), and it seems that the Murcia Junta has just given permission for the agricultural land between the new road and the coast to be developed, so most of the developers are moving north, taking the investment opportunities.

This might have two impacts for us - the prices on our properties will increase because of scarcity of new builds over the two years (although they will go up anyway when the new road is complete early next year) and they might put the labour to use on Marina Rey - all good news I hope.

Enjoy your trip out there - it was v wet for the first few days (and mega cold!) but when I flew back yesterday it was 27c.  Tourist areas are quiet, as I expect you know, but the spanish towns are open - I love it off season.  Don't know how well you know the area but you can get a good cheap lunch time meal in most of the spanish restaurants 8-10 euros at this time of year.  Recommend el mar del mar on Villaricos road.  Will be walking distance from our apartments!  I don't go out on my own in the evenings (tended to drink on my complex with friends) but I understand most of Garrucha is shut up for evening meal but Turre is a good bet then.  Enjoy!

Palomares 40 years on
África Mateo

 

 

 

 

Hi

We have just returned from our visit to do the snagging list.  The apartment is fine, the white goods are in place and only small areas in or around the apartment still need finishing properly.  The main problem with the development is outside the apartment, the walls are all running with stains after the last rain and what paint was on the walls appears to be running off, leaving a dirty off-white appearance overall, when queried with the builder we were told the community could get together to get it repainted in January at our own cost!!!, I explained we wouldn't be prepared to do this for a new build especailly as because it hasn't been finished properly by the developers. We have listed it on the snagging list as makes the whole development look like Colditz, with all surrounding developments looking so new!

Area nice with local Oasis Pub just been taken over by English couple and lovely meals with free wine for early birds 5-7pm for £5.

If the actual contaminated site is behind the Cemetery (there was no sign of any area being sectioned off?) it can found on the lane up the side of the "Factory building" on the Roundabout to Cueves de Almanzora, it is approx 1 mile from the development.

We are concerned re the resale & renting potential of the aparment, we have already had people who were booked with us from June, cancel due to the plutonium contamination & not being willing to take a chance with health possible problems.

Would any of us consider buying there if it wasn't for the fact that we have a financial loss if we do not proceed? The prices are not any lower than elsewhere in the area so we feel buyers would probably not buy in a possibly contaminated area.

Our lawyer advised us contamination would not be accepted as a reason not to proceed, so we would lose 50% of our deposit!!

Luckily the lack of the Certificate de Habitilidad gives us a breathing space to make the final decision

Bye for now

 

Jill

Marky

Thanks for this update.  Have you been given a completion date yet? 

We are hoping to travel out on 6 Dec for a few days, although we are not much nearer sorting out our 'en-suite' fiasco than we were a few months ago. 

Did the owner of the Oasis bar have any comments to make about the contaminated area?  The most difficult thing is almost everything we hear is 'hear-say' there does not appear to be anything official, and how truthful would that be as the livlihoods of the population of the area depends on the agricultural and property development side of things, so will anything official come out that will have a detrimental effect to those key areas.

Totally agree with you, that it should not be the responsibility of the 'community' to repaint the walls and we should all stand firm on this.   The pleasure of buying our first property abroad seems to have been soured somewhat by all of this. 

We feel somewha aggrieved that the agents who we went with, having had a good commission fee, did not research the area.  When we first approached them some 12 months ago (before all this came out) about the possible effects the 'bomb' - they brushed us away without a thought!

How naive we were.

Best wishes,

Aiden

Hello

I've just returned from Palomares, there has been an aweful lot of rain recently and that mixed with dust creates a real mess on white washed walls. If Jardines is the same as Hacienda II then the Monocap render will absorb the dust and permenantly stain. Hacienda I is always being paitned at great expense to the community (although not Monocap)

On the radiation front, I took a Geiger counter to my property and radiation showed as normal. I am gutted to have purchased in the only area in the world where such an accident has happened and my greatest fear (after my family contracting radiation related illness) is that this sort of thing covered and brushed under the Franko regieme would make a fantastic programme for Panorama or Horizon ! On the + side I played at Desert Springs golf course and looked at some of the properties up there - If there was a significant issue I don't think properties would be changing hands on site for almost €1million without significant publicity. Although apparently supply of food to the European market was only allowed from the area 5 years ago.

If you want out of the property pronto then don't complete, take the 15% penalty now, because it will not sell for a couple of years. If the radiation issue blows up (excuse pun) then the consequences could be much worse.

I hope things work out for all of you, it is a lovely area and if things are OK on the radiation front + the developer is pushed hard enough on outstanding issues (prior to completion), then  happy days....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel the same about Desert Springs, and the proposed Marina Rey, but then I am just an optimistic person.  It is not as though its the last available space on the coast, so those sites were chosen despite of any radiation risk.

When I visited, I negotiated for our property to be re-painted inside and out (no 62) but the rain had only just started and it was looking like a spray tan job in the rain - so maybe his mind has changed now all of the properties need repainting.  Definitely a reason to get together and speak as one voice.

Re completion, I was told the earlist 1st habitation would come through would be Feb or March, so we are enjoying the breather and not having the worries of the property over winter and looking forward to next summer.  Maybe I am just a lax holiday booker, but my booking research normally does not extend beyond price and local facilities.  I certainly wouldn't do an H bomb search, and guess none of us did in our pre-purchase research otherwise we wouldn't be communicating through this message board!

All the best, W

Hi

Interesting responses, we all need to make our own minds up on how & if we are to proceed

One thing that has become obvious is the difference in the contracts we have signed & penalty clauses, I asked my solicitor what our penalty would be , she stated 25% of deposit paid (we have already paid £61,000) on checking our contract it states 50% so it appears my solicitor has a different contract from us?? you stated 15%?? is that correct?

Suppose we are lucky in that this could all have come out after we had completed then we would be in a worse financial position than we are now. We only bought to try to give us a pension as my husbands pension had collapsed after 28 years of paying into it & now he has been made redundant so we have to buy in inland Spain next year & needed to be in a position to sell this apartment easily, next year.

Bye for now

 

Jill

 

 

 

 

Jill

I didn't realise you would lose 25-50%, not sure what I would do in such an instance, I'm trying to locate a radiation student.lecturer who may offer some better advice. When I have it, I'll post

 

Guys

I have managed to contact the US Airforce medical department that deals with monitoring in Palomares and is resposible for the health of the 1600 US Airforce personel that assisted in the clean-up.

I'm waitng for a call back, but I hopefully I will have some further clarification on the health issues very soon.

 

Hi

Good to hear your comments.

We were told very much like you Jill.  From our agents, we were informed that it would be 25% of our deposit, however the contract does read that if the vendor party choses to cancel the vendor would reimburse those amounts paid by the purchaser party after deducting 25%.  The contract is not so specific to an amount if it is the purchaser who choses to cancel.  Again, our solicitor leads us to believe we would lose our deposit totalling 50% of purchase price.

I have emailed the American embassy to see (remotely) if they would provide any information - not response yet...

For us this has 'soured' the excitment we had in  purchasing our first property abroad - we too brougt for future financial purposes, however we were hoping to enjoy some quality time in the apartment away from home stresses etc.  The pleasure seems to have deminished. 

Regards,

Sharon

 

Here is a comprehensive report from the USAF Medical Office

http://airforcemedicine.afms.mil/latestnews/palomares_body.pdf

It's a long read,

My major concerns are that firstly; Plutonium is the most dangerous substance known to man, it remains radioactive for +1000 years, secondly; the proximity of the bombs to Palomares (both east & west and closer than I thought) and further; Plutoniums ability to enter the lungs through minute dust particles (with an eye on recent and ongoing deep foundation digging in the area)

It seems that there are no real comparisons for the USAF to draw on therefore everyting in the report is a guess. This is a worrying situation - It seems clear that if you are over 40 years then there really isn't enough time for Plutonium to affect your body, especially if Palomares is just a holiday home. However I have young children and the risk even if slight is one not worth taking. I very much doubt with such slow effects on a small population that any evidence of health effects could be proved without +50-80 years of monitoring. In such an instance I would also conclude that any such effects would be better kept under wraps than made public.

I hope this helps people make a balanced and informed decision going forward, my own position may seem clear, but it is not my intention to offer my actions as a benchmark for others in similar dilema.

Regards

 

 

 

 

Hi everyone

A little bit of good news - our agent/builder have agreed to rectify the en-suite at no cost to ourselves.  They have suggested we complete beforehand, I don't need to state our response!

Could you please enlighten us on what "Marina Rey" is going to be?

Aiden

Hello everybody I am a new subscriber. Our appartment is in Phase 3. We visited end Nov and like others saw the staining of the paintwork due to the rainfall. The builders reresentative suggested to have it painted after the rains! We did our snag list, which had minor faults, and were told that these would be rectified on completion. Regarding the habitation license we have just been informed by our solicitor, who has been in contact with the builder, that this 'should' be available in Jan. and not to sign before then. Are the present tennants on the builders supply for water and electricity? We where told that if we signed then this would be free until the license is received.

We were told the Marina Rey is going to be a "little Venice" with luxury homes in the Centre with the sea surrounding it in a moat effect on the coast next to Palomares, which will supposedly increase the value & interest in property in Palomares

 

It was supposed to be started before now but was delayed because of the contamination in Palomares, they had apparently, however, decided to reinstate plans to do it................but that was before thediscovery of the plutonium contaminated snail in October!

 

With reference to the outside of the development being stained, a previous development by the same builder in Palomares is still having problems with the finish & has to pay to have it painted every year trying to keep it looking ok, they are not amused!

 

When we spoke to the builder when snagging they confirmed they would paint it again in January.....but at our cost...If he is prepared to do it at his own cost It would seem wise if we all said we would not complete until it was done....surely that would give him an incentive to do it & do it properly, otherwise we could end up in the same position as the other development which is apparently considering taking them to court to get the finish completed properly. If it was just the rain why are the other developments not looking so tatty? the paint work on ours is both streaky, dirty, & patchy due to different shades of white.

 

All the best in 2007 to you all!!!!

 

Initial work starts in Palomares radiation pollution case By m.p. Mon, 18 Dec 2006, 21:27

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Central government offices in Almería province have confirmed that preparations have begun for the work to measure radiation levels in Palomares.

The work is taking place in Zone 3 of the 10 hectare area, in Palomares itself, where the area to be analysed is currently being fenced off. The two other zones are near Vera and in Cuevas del Almanzora.

A group of 20 technicians will start the work of drawing up a three dimensional map of the entire area once all the fencing has been erected. The detailed map will need at least two years to complete.

The next stage of the operation will be laboratory analysis of their results by a team of technicians from the United States, under an agreement signed with the US Energy Department earlier this year.

The area was contaminated after a mid-air accident between a B-52 bomber and a refuelling plane in 1966, when the parachutes on two of the aircraft’s 4 thermonuclear bombs failed, and they crashed to ground in Palomares.

Hi all

with regards to the paint work, we have asked advice from our solicitor. We have said that we are not willing to pay our last payment till the problem is solved. I agree with you that we should stick together on this matter. My brother is no17 and he is in agreement not to sign aswell. happy new year to you all.

Regards Mave