healthcare in spain.

hope somebody can help. looks like the development might soon be complete and i expect therefore somebody from Jale to contact us soon for us to complete the acquisition of our apartment. we will then need to arrange a number of things and i would be grateful for any recommendations people can give us:

1. lawyer to execute the completion. the lawyer we have used so far (like many we paid the deposit 3 years ago) was recommended by the agent and i've read a lot recently that it would be better to use someone independent

2.builder. we have a 3 bed duplex that can be converted in to a 4 bed upon completion and need someone to do the conversion

3.aircon contractor. we want to put in an aircon/heating system before we move in

4. furnisher. we need someone to furnish the apt for us

many thanks in anticipation of a response

Martin O'Hara

My solicitor was Beatriz ochoa de Retana of Astolfi & Asociados (she has an office in the port)

She was excellent - replies to emails, good English - knows the people at Jale which is useful - very professional & nothing is too much trouble.

astolfi@marbella.net

Bill

Hi, we are buying in the "gap" at the front line golf and have just come back from a short weekend to update ourselves on the lack of progress.

It is obvious that the front "gap" apartments will not be completed in December-we estimated at least another 8 weeks and Alicia in the showflat confirmed this. I have asked our solicitor to confirm it also with Jale. As far as we could see interior partitions are up and wardrobe doors going in. Alicia says no sanitaryware has been installed yet.

What also concerns us is the general condition of the site. The pathway above the pool in the area already completed has subsided and there are cracks in it. The front  of the  block in which the showflat is in has major cracks in the pathway and also at the foot of the apartments. The paintwork in the completed areas is already peeling, and the pool which I have read so much about on this website is now a dark green and looks particularly unattractive.

Alicia told us they now have 50 new and resale properties to sell, and there is absolutely no interest-she says that people come, look and walk away, and frankly I'm not surprised. Anybody wishing to purchase would be horrified to see cracks across the site as it looks like a bad case of subsidence, the unappealing pool and the paintwork. 

We are really worried as to whether this site will come up to scratch. We have also invested in the Arenal 2000 site in Sabinillas where the builder is much more on the ball, and the development although running about a year late looks cared for and with attention to detail. The sales staff are knowledgable and can tell you exactly what is happening. Resale prices have risen by 15% in 18 months and the development is 100% sold.

I feel that the residents need to keep up the pressure on Jale to complete to our satisfaction, as despite our concerns we still think it could be one of the best developments if finished to the quality promised.

I agree that we should put them under pressure as the standard overall is just not good enough.  However, I was also there recently and in respect of your points:

Paths and subsidence - It is true that the paths have subsided but if you look closely, the building hasn't.  Still pretty poor on the paths but at least the building is safe, and I seem to remember reading (not sure where - probably the AMMEX notes) that they have promised to reedo the paths when the development is completed.

Pool - I posted the pix of the pool and we swam in it every day and it was fab.  I saw it was green the other week (much to the disappointment of the kids even if it was too cold to use) and I believe that they have just stop maintaining it during the winter whilst no-one is there or can use it.  I hope they know better tha I do the cost of maintenance against the cost of putting it right in the spring.

Peeling paint - One of my many snagging issues.  Why should I repaint? The reasons for needing it are thir delays and their poor workmanship.  Get it on your snagging and don't just give in in the first instance.

I think you are right however, as long as the site and paths etc. look poor, people will go to one of the many other sites and buy from them.

My overall view is that Jale have caused so much pain for so many people that we should not let them off lightly, we should continue to hassle them until the issues have been resolved.

when all is complete, has anyone any idea of the monthly/yearly service charge ?

Do we only pay when we are happy with the completed development ?

I don't think completion has anything to do with it.  Once you fully own the apoartment you will be paying in the region of €180.00 per quarter, I think the exavt amount depends on your property.

I think the real question is when everything is actually completed and the pools, gardens and other facilities are fully operative, will the amount we are currently paying be sufficient?  If it will be, then why are we paying so much now with virtually no facilities (excl security)?  And if it isn't then won't our newly increased fees be expensive compared to others in the area? 

Hi

The reason we have kept the community fees at the level they are at now, is all of those people who have completed are enjoying some of the benefits of the community, those appartments that have either not been sold or which have not been completed on, are the responsability of Jale Group, therefore allowing our community 'pot' to grow. It was decided at one of the community meetings not to reduce the amount people were currently payingas Jale, who owning the majority of the appartments, would not not have to contribute as much per quarter.

As most people should be aware,the money we have collected has been put to good use ie: installation of community Sky,and we also have a healthy surplus in funds for installation of heated pool if the community decide we want to go for this.

Once all appartments have been completed we will look at the amount paid, what our expenditure is, and adjust the amount accordingly, although i doubt whether it will be lower than it is currently once we get in the swing of things.

Interesting points Paul, and don't get me wrong, I am happy with what I am getting at the moment.  But I am currently discussing with AMMEX an amount they think I owe and I am not sure I do (it is so difficult to understand everything isn't it!) but in an email they said, and I quote "Due to the bad financial situation in which the community is at the moment, I ask you try to resolve this situation as soon as possible."

Now they could be just trying to apply pressure (isn't that lying?) but given the info they have sent me so far I am a little worried about them and their administrative capabilities.

With respect ; there is no need to pay any community fees untill the project has been granted its licence for occupation. Personally i think its an insult to even ask before, given the state of the site. Mr. denton spending ' good ' money on a sky dish when hardly anyone is in occupation or also has the chance to put foward there ideas is a somewhat onesided opion, but if you cant swim or sunbath due to dust or talk due to ( if lucky) construction noise then may be the only thing to do is watch TV.

I also agree that AMMEX seem incompetent, as a community of owners, once up and running perhaps this can be addressed.

On other peoples notes, i too am concerned with the standard of finish, which should be the main concern rather than fees and sky dishes. Jale have a shocking reputation which is evident  with hindsight. The standard is below par, i feel a lot of us are not wishing to accept it BUT its a fact. Lets stop looking with our hearts and through rose tinted glasses and jointly, not indepently apply pressure. I would collectively ask that a 5 % retention is held back to cover costs of repairs, that, lets be honest Jale will avoid completing. They are in no rush and never has been to finish this site which is probably going to be some 3 years late before completion. Thats if we are lucky. I have over the last 2 years expressed my concerns and asked people to contact me, with no luck. Are people afraid to be honest with themselves and  happy to be treated as idioits by Jale and except a sub standard building. It might look nice but its not a picture its your MONEY. Lets not forget the original delay in the gap was due to underwater springs making the soil unstable. With Jale/ Vospa carrying out the work god help us that thay stay up!!!

I can be contacted on 0044 (0) 7778 127 573 or richard@scenapro.com or rdw707@tiscali.co.uk.

Lets hope some of you share the same concerns and the rest get your head out of the sand and face facts. Unless your happy to kiss your money goodbye.

Thank god for that.  At last, someone with the balls to stand up and say something.  If you read my posts on here and other sites, you will see that I have also complained about these things.  I have fought with Jale all the way and am currently in dispute with theire head office.  It all seems a waste of time, they stall at every conceivable opportunity and too many people give in.  There are just too many people who think it is OK to receive second rate product and then spend their own valuable time putting it right or worse just living with it!  Why the hell should we.

I paid my money in full to Jale at the beginning of the year, so cannot now withold any.  I'm not sure that will actually work because I would guess they just wouldn't complete and hand over the keys, but good luck trying.

Between AMMEX and Jale we were really blessed weren't we!

I am happy to get involved in any other form of protest / action to get these people to listen.  I can be PMed anytime.

Blanco,

i am sorry you didn't find my response to community fees quite what you were looking for, however i am afraid you are wrong to suggest that fees are only paid upon the granting of a licence of ocupation. The community fees are due upon your completion of your purchase, in my case Jan 2005, if i had not paid fees for almost two years then people like myself, and other people who have completed and indeed live there fulltime, would not have been able to enjoy their apts as there would have been no cleaning, lighting, pool in the summer etc, and no tending to the gardens that have been in place for some time. I am also sorry that you don't agree with the satellite dish, however it was decided as a community that we should have this installed, i myself have not connected to Sky, but felt sure that the rest of the community would benefit from this being in place.

Finally, whilst we all have some issues with build quality, i am confident that when we as a community are all working together, we will be a force and will get the oustanding repairs sorted by working together. We paid our initial deposit for our apt back in August 2002 and having looked at many other developments in the area found Fairways to be by far the best value, and from what i have seen in the time that has elapsed i have no reason to think any differently, and i am very confident that when complete this development will be far nicer than anything else on the hill, and ,dont forget it was fantastic value compared to prices of other developments. Our next community meeting is in Feb so hopefully we will have a better turn out than previous, and we can start to get things moving forward.

Paul Denton,

   Community fees are payable , yes upon completion. However you do not need to be pushed in to signing for your so called completed appartment until the occupational licence has been passed.  I appreciate that some people due to their individual circumstances had to complete without the licence in place. this still does not mean you have to pay ammex the amount they request, unless you are so happy with a dirty dusty site, no garage, a half empty green pool, then please feel free to give them your hard earned cash!!

If you wish to complete before and the licence is never awarded then your up the old creek with a lot of money down the tubes if it is not granted.

    You also do not need to pay Jale any more installments ( subject to original contract you may have signed) until this licence is obtained.That is why i was advising/suggesting withholding monies now.

With respect Paul, if anyone has all your money its a lot harder to get them to refund it. WHY NOT moan now NOT PAY them and get them to get there arse in gear. Trust me it will be a lot harder later on. Do you trust them? 

Blanco,

I fully understand your concerns and please do not think i am playing on the same team as Jale as i can assure you i am not!! As i stated before we completed on our purchase January 2005, so not in a position to hold back any monies from Jale, we took advise from our lawyers re completing without the FLO and whilst it is a calculated risk we have been able to spend almost 25 weeks in our apt since completing, and, whilst it has not been ideal with all the building works going on around us i would not change a thing, and have thoroughly enjoyed my time there and look forward to the whole development being complete so we can take advantage of the lovely area without the builders as neighbours.

Getting back to the community fees, i have paid these fees for 2 years now and at one of the community meetings it was suggested that the people paying these fees, ie those that have completed the purchase and are now owners, would benefit from keeping the fees at the level they are now( which is reduced from the rate they will be when we as the community have taken over) as Jale, being the company who owned majority of the properties have to pay the same amount on each property that has not been completed, therefore making their fee liability a large amount each quarter which they have paid in full without any problems. 

Finally, i think we all know about the problems of movement within the structure of the building, which is worse in some areas than in others, but rest assured we as a community will not take over this site until all works have been carried out to our absolute satisfaction, as once we do take over that is when we are on our own with any further problems that may or may not arise, so i for one will want to see all the problems sorted before this hand over takes place !!

From what i can gather the builders are well on the way to the finish line, i will be there myself in 3 weeks and i am hoping to see an almost completed site, HERE'S HOPING !!! 

Hi Paul,

Best of luck when you go out there. Look foward to your report  when you get back.

Blanco,

you always seem to be so aggresive in your postings, i do hope you will be as vocal when we are at the community meetings. Whilst i agree my position to argue expired on completion of my apt, i personally do not have any problems whatsoever with my purchase. However, there are problems within the development which need to be sorted so i am not just going to take the stance of I'm allright Jack.The next community meeting is 22 feb 2007, and this will be very important as the development should be complete!! We then as a community will be asked to take over the development from Jale, it is at this point when our bargaining power will need to be at full strength, we will not want to take over with problems still to be sorted out by Jale, as i am quite sure if we do, we will not see them for dust, leaving us all to pick up the pieces. I do not know if you have problems with your apt or with the development itself, but we will have a much clearer picture in the next few weeks when the development is finished, and Jale have obtained all the FLO's as to our best way forward.

Will report on how things look as soon as i return.

Paul Denton,

   Please do not take it personally. Its from frustration and trying to get people to speak up and not take the bull that Jale dish out.

I look foward to a glass of wine at some stage with you. Have a good trip.

Lets hope we are in this time next year.

Happy Christmas to everyone!!

Hi all,

Just back from Fairways and pleased to report that the development looks just about complete. There are still builders on site but mainly doing a clear up operation and finishing touches etc. As you will see from photos uploaded today the path on Golf side is being laid, the gardens are now flat and top soil has been put on ready for seeding or turfing. Both the small pool and clubhouse pool are cleaned and ready for water, and whilst we were there, some chemicals were put into the main pool , i still wouldn't want to swim in it but at least it was blue and looked nicer than the dark green colour of late.The new blocks look to be all finished and of a good quality, dare i say maybe better than some of the original bits or maybe it is just because the paint is nice and fresh. As you will see both new blocks have a dark brown finish on the penthouse gazeebo's which looks a little daft, i think all old ones which were a pale brown need to be painted to keep everything uniform. The section facing the garden has had windows borded up and painted, so still unsure what the plan is for this but an apt in new block road side is defo not an apt anymore and looks like possible reception area for whatever is going downstairs, some suggestions are a gym, maybe this will become clear at the AGM. Still unsure as to what is happening with FLO's but maybe those getting ready to complete will know more. There were gardeners there most days and there has been quite a few plants put in but still a lot more needed. In summary whilst the date of end December will clearly not be met, i am sure we are now finally on the last furlong of a very long race. There are still MAJOR ISSUES to be sorted re pathways etc etc, and i am sure some people will have their own issues with individual apts,but it does seem to be coming together nicely. Please dont forget the AGM is 22 Feb 2007, even people who have not completed must try to attend, as this will be an important meeting for both the community and Jale. Look forward to seeing as many people as possible then, in the meantime Happy New Year to everybody.