Certificate of Registration of the EU

Hi

Does anyone know what this certificate is and how it differs from residency please?

When I tried to register my husband at the local INSS for healthcare, they said he needed this to get it.

He can't get residency as he works full time in the UK and commutes every week.

I know it would make life difficult if he got residency, because of paying his tax and insurance in the UK as they class him as a UK residence due to being there more than here in Spain.

Presumably, I could take residency as I am here all the time.

What are the benefits or drawbacks of doing this?

Thanks

Laury

If he's a uk citizen, I can't see why he'd need it ? Normally passport & copies do ?  You can get more info. / apply online here : 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/applyingundereuropeanlaw/

So that certificate is what people call "residency"?

We don't want it for my husband. So why on earth did they ask for it at the INSS?

I am getting really fed up with them there. I have been 3 times and it's a different story every time.

So can we get health care without this?

That's the UK requirements on the site you posted, which I am grateful for, thank you, but is it different in Spain?

Laury

Laury,

Why do you keep starting new threads on the same subject?  No wonder you are confused.

You spend more than three months in Spain at a time.  You are entitled and required to apply for residency.  Nowadays this takes the form of a certificate confirming that you are included in the register of EU citizens resident in Spain.  See the British Embassy website - http://ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-spain/residence-req 

You spend more than 183 days in a calendar year with your feet on Spanish soil.  You are therefore tax-resident in Spain and should complete the annual Renta declaration declaring your worldwide income and paying taxes in Spain.  You are then entitled to register for healthcare in Spain under one of the various reciprocal arrangements discussed at length on one of your other threads.

Your husband does not spend three months consecutively or 183 days in any calendar year with his feet on Spanish soil.  He is both resident and tax-resident in the UK and will pay UK tax on his worldwide assets.  I suspect that he will also be liable for non-resident income tax on his half of what I presume is your jointly-owned Spanish home.

You are hitting problems in trying to register your husband at the INSS for healthcare as they probably can't understand why you persist in trying to register someone who isn't resident in Spain. He is not entitled to be registered with INSS.  Heshould be covered by his European Health Insurance Card for emergency treatment in Spain  like any other tourist.

I believe but could be proved wrong, that all people residing in Spain and coming from another EU country must register as a resident and obtain the residents certificate once they have lived permanently in Spain for 90 days or more.

This is not registering as a tax resident.

I don't know if there are any penalties for not doing so, I know lots of people that have not bothered.

My wife and I both have the certificates but have not needed them for health care as we have private care. I do however know that to get a SIP card you have to show a padron, residence cert. passport, papers from Newcastle and if married ypur marriage licence.

I don't see any reason why your husband cannot register, as he appears to be only a tax resident in the UK and permanently living in Spain, even if he commutes each week.

Don't worry about it, it's only a simple formality and if it get your SIP cards, worth the effort.

Hello

We certainly needed residencia to be eligible to use the health service.

It makes sense really,  a person should  be resident in the Uk to join a GP's list there.

If I remember correctly,  as well as the then form 106, we needed residence certificates, passports and marriage certificate and copies of them all. I think we may have also taken up to date copies of the padron as well.

Best of luck.

Jean

Why do you think as a non-resident he should be entitled to free healthcare here? You said yourself he pays his insurance in the UK, so that's where he gets healthcare. He can get an EHIC from the UK which will cover him for emergency treatment in Spain - as can you. Alternatively, if you want to register as a resident you can (and strictly speaking should do if you spend most of your time here) but unless you are a pensioner, this will not automatically qualify you for free healthcare. Unlike the UK where residency alone is sufficient to be eligible for NHS, in Spain it is contribution based. If you do not pay social security here, you do not get free healthcare. And before someone says "oh yes you do", I'm aware that in some areas the authorities are more lax than others, and Valencia I think has a voluntary contribution system so you may find a way round this - but strictly speaking, you do not qualify.

I was asking about residency and it's pros and cons in this thread. Not the S1 which is in the other thread.

I am happy to register as resident here as I am here all the time but my husband is entitled to reciprocal healthcare through the S1 which is equivalent to the old E109.

As a "Frontier" worker, he is entitled to full health care in both countries.

Here's an extract:-

From the text on the S1 form - http://ec.europa.eu/social/keyDocuments ... y=docOrder

This is your and your family members’ certificate of entitlement to sickness, maternity, and equivalent paternity benefits in kind (i.e. health care, medical treatment etc.) in your State of residence. Family members are only covered if they fulfil the conditions laid down in the legislation of the State of residence.

Link to the relevant page on seg-social - http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Tra ... /index.htm

The P1 - http://www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Pen ... /index.htm

From http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=26&langId=en
FAQ http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?cat ... PageId=980

What form do I need to register for healthcare in the country where I live if I am insured elsewhere (S1 form)?

The S1 form allows you to register for healthcare if you live in an EU country, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland but you are insured in a different one of these countries.

This is typically the case of pensioners retiring abroad. It can also be useful for members of the family of migrant workers who have stayed in their country of origin but are now covered by the social security insurance of the country where their family member now works.

It corresponds to the old E106, E109, E120 and E121 forms.


From Tress Network (funded by EC) -

Medical care
I am a frontier worker. To what medical care am I and my family members entitled?
In common with other workers who reside outside the competent State (the State where you are insured), you and your family members are entitled to medical care in the Member State in which you reside, at the expense of the competent institution. In order to receive medical care in the State of residence, you must register yourself and your family members with the institution of the place of residence. Upon your request or upon request of the institution of the place of residence, you will receive from the competent institution a document (portable document S1) certifying your entitlement to medical care in the State of residence. Note that, when your family members are entitled to medical care under the legislation of the Member State of residence and your spouse exercises a gainful activity there, the cost of the benefits provided to them is borne by the institution of that State.

Like other workers who reside outside the competent State, you may also obtain benefits while staying in the territory of the competent Member State, provided in accordance with the legislation of that State and at its expense.

The coordination rules thus guarantee you a right to choose in which of the two States – the State in which you reside or the State in which you work – you wish to obtain medical care. There is a difference, however, for the members of your family. Whereas family members of migrant workers other than frontier workers can receive medical care during a stay in the competent State on the same basis as the workers themselves, for frontier workers' family members, this applies only in 16 out of 27 Member States. In the territory of 11 Member States (i.e. those Member States which are listed in Annex III to Regulation 883/2004) the members of the family of frontier workers are only entitled to occasional medical care, i.e. care which becomes medically necessary during the stay in the competent State, taking into account the nature of the benefits and the expected length of the stay. This implies, in principle, that they cannot travel to the competent State with the purpose to be treated there, unless they apply for prior authorisation (see also question 41.1. and 41.4-41.5). The Member States on the territory of which this restriction applies are Denmark, Estonia, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Lithuania, Hungary, the Netherlands, Finland, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Therefore, a frontier worker who lives in one country (Spain) but works in another (UK) is insured in UK and entitled to healthcare in either country. Family members resident in Spain are entitled to healthcare in Spain, providing the family member is dependent on the frontier worker. According to Spanish legislation, the family member can't have an income of more than twice the IPREM (about £1000 pm - but check this on seg-social).

 

Oh yes and with regard to residence based health care, I believe that the UK is the only EU country who uses that rule. The others are all payment based.

Furthermore. It was made clear to us by the DWP that my husband is regarded as being UK based because he spends 5 days a week there and 2 here in Spain. Our house is here and he stays in hotels in the UK. Not in a home.

We DO pay our non-resident taxes.

As stated previously I am happy to register for residency but can't see how he can?

Laury

I can see why this is confusing! Not all the links you provided work - those that do (FAQs for example) only serve to confuse further or add more ambiguity! God bless the Euro MPs!

I should point out the bleedin' obvious here, that I'm no expert on the subject, so whatever I say here is just my view as I understand it, but hopefully any views are helpful? That's what the forum is for anyway, right? Just asking other people's views in the hope that something someone says might make something a little clearer?

Don't know anything about Tress, but to re-quote:

In common with other workers who reside outside the competent State (the State where you your husband are insured UK), you your husband and your family members you are entitled to medical care in the Member State in which you reside Spain, at the expense of the competent institution UK. In order to receive medical care in the State of residence Spain, you must register yourself and your family members with the institution of the place of residence INSS Spain. Upon your request or upon request of the institution of the place of residence, you will receive from the competent institution Newcastle? a document (portable document S1) certifying your entitlement to medical care in the State of residence Spain.

I've added in red the relevant authority to try to simplify this. So the way I see it, hubby pays social security in the UK because that's where he works, but he and his dependents (you) are entitled to healthcare in Spain because that's where you live (bear with me). And the UK foots the bill, because that's who he pays his SS to. In order for this to happen, the Spanish authorities will require an S1 from the UK authorities, basically confirming that if Spain treats you, the UK will pay. Of course, to register with the health authority here in Spain, they want proof first that hubby is in fact resident here, even if he works elsewhere. That's where the problem arises, because strictly speaking he is not resident here! However, that may not be a problem - I don't suppose anybody is going to actually check. And as for taxation, there's a difference between residence, and tax residence.

I think hubby may have to register as a resident in Spain, get an S1 from the UK, and then register you both on the Spanish health system. I think he will still be able to receive treatment in the UK as a "frontier" worker, with the bill footed by the UK, at least for emergencies, but I don't think he (or you) can be registered in both countries. It's either - or: "Q: As a cross-border worker (so-called "frontier worker"), can I have access to healthcare in the country where I work, although I don't live there? A: As a cross-border worker you may access healthcare either in the country where you reside or in the country where you work". This from here: http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=857&langId=en&intPageId=974

Complicated. Does this help at all?
 

Yes thanks. I was just hoping for someone who knew more than I did.

The points you make are clear. My husband has already received his Si and after a great deal of trips to the INSS in Orihuela and phone calls to Newcastle. The DWP have finally decided to send another S1 in my name as the Spanish authorities won't accept me without one.

On my last trip to the INSS they said I needed to return with both S1s plus NIE certs, pasports and padron. No mention of residencia. On this trip they told me we also needed this flipping EU registry certificate which I though was something else again.

I didn't know it was a residencia type thing.

That was what I was trying to find out when I started this thread.

I just assumed it was something new that people might know about.

I also wanted to know if my husband could get one as he is away more than he's here.

Laury

As discussed on another thread, personally I don't believe the town hall should have registered you on the padrón without a residence certificate, although it doesn't surprise me that they did. It also doesn't surprise me that the INSS are insisting on it (as jek said also) since they would not understand why a non-resident is trying to register for healthcare.

So probably your best bet is to just go and register both you and your husband. You already have you NIE (I presume) so use form ex-16 (I posted some links on another thread tonight about renewing residency) It won't affect hubby's tax residency status - I very much doubt any UK authorities will ever even know that you have registered as residents in Spain anyway.

P.S. I don't presume to know more about this than you - just throwing out my thoughts in the hope it may help. By the end of it all, you will know more than most and be able to advise others!

We signed on the padron when we bought our house before it was reformed. We were advised to do this as it helps the town hall's funding. In those days, the residencia came after the padron. Now, I believe, it's the other way round.

I can easily go and get my certificate but my husband is away all week and has no time off until easter, at the end of April.

All his flights to and from work are booked up and paid for, for months.,

Bummer.

Laury

I don't believe it was ever the other way round (see my latest post on the padrón thread), and when someone "advises" you to do something that benefits them but doesn't appear to benefit you specifically, take it with a pinch of salt! Having said that, you may enjoy significant discounts on your IBI and / or water rates by being on the padrón, in which case the benefit is mutual.

As for the health care thingy, what's the rush? Hubby's also not going to have time to visit a doctor here before Easter then, so why worry? (Be happy!) Have you got EHICs? They will cover you for any emergencies.

My understanding , as stated by others, is that you & any family / children register for spanish healthcare via TheS1 route. Your husband as the taxpaying , reciprocal healthcare provider , working & spending the majority of his time in the UK is treated as in receipt of UK healthcare , as that is where he spends most of his time. If he needs treatment when in spain he uses his EHIC & the spanish reclaim the costs from the UK . As they do for any treatment you receive.

Mr Kevin wrote ;  " I do however know that to get a SIP card you have to show a padron, residence cert. passport, papers from Newcastle and if married ypur marriage licence."

Not here you don't, only social security number & padron, when we signed up. Didn't need residencia as you have to show escritura or rental contract to get on the padron.

I know a lot of people who registered for health care in Orihuela without residency too.

In fact, on my previous visits, I was told to get an S1 for me and to bring passport, padron and NIE. No mention of residency until this last time.

I just think they move the goalposts.

Funny that you believe that residencia always came first. How would we have signed on Padron if that was the case?

The EHIC is okay for emergencies  but I have a long term problem and have been paying privately for medications, blood tests and doctor's appointments for over 2 years.

My husband is also in need of some blood tests and maybe an operation. He would prefer it here as there are too many bugs floating round the British hospitals.. and he could recuperate at home instead of a British hotel in an area we don't know. We have no base there.

We originally chose this area to move to, in part, because they gave free reciprocal health care. It was cancelled because the British government were bad payers.

Laury

Simple - you signed on the padrón without first getting residencia because your town hall chose to ignore the correct rules. I don't think you are to be blamed for this in any way - but if you see my last post on the padrón thread you will see what I mean. A padrón certificate is proof of "habitual residence" at the address given. If some health authorities in Spain accept a padrón without checking residency, it is because they are assuming if you have the padrón certificate, you must already have residency.