aifos getting away with it

 No, Bar association cannot enforce them. They can encourage them but these cases need to be dealt in Courts

Hi Maria,

Thank you for replying and could you give me your opinion on the following........

1) How much would it cost to bring a court action against a lawyer ?

2) How long would it take ?

3) Since I paid this money to this person in 2004/5, could he have a legitament defence and say he can't remember ?

4) This person handed my file to my new lawyer in 2008, and my new lawyer informed me that it did not contain any Banking details of the Aifos Bank, again could his defence be that he cannot remember as he no longer has the file ?

5) Are lawyers required to keep records of financial transactions, if so, for how long ?, and would these type of payments be part of the financial records ?

This is really concerning....... Spanish lawyers are unaccountable to their own professional body? If this is true Maria, then this is a very grave situation for all those seeking justice in Spain. It would be viewed as the Bar Associations protecting "their own" and condoning unethical practice.

amazingly enough when i tell people that its a completely unregulated industry and a free for all with lots of power.

people disagree with me.

unbelievable really.

Hi Maria.

The need for the Banking details of AIFOS are becoming more and more relevant, especially when your two latest blogs, i.e. 895 and 896, report such good news, and regarding Blog 896, the Courts decision against the Banks appears to have come from the same set of circumstances as ours.

Therefore we would appreciate it if you could spare a few minutes from your busy schedule, to give us your opinion to the questions we put on the 30/01/13 @16:46.

Thank you in anticipation

Hi belucky, i can understand your concerns as i am in a similar position to you (except i paid my money in 2003), in that i have no idea what bank i paid the deposit into. However, I think this kind of mitigation is pretty common now and i think the fact that you paid something and received a receipt/contract for it will more than likely suffice in this instance. I mean if 50 people (in the law suit) all received the same contract AND 49 people (except you) can prove which bank they paid their deposit into AND all are the same bank, then you will have no problem convincing a court that your situation is the same as the others on the development.

Maria seems to think that i am ok under this situation (or at least she hasn't said otherwise!)

I haven't explained as best as i can but i think you get my drift.

Belucky:

Answering to you ( in this saturday evening), below in bold orange ( same text as your post):

Hi Maria,

Thank you for replying and could you give me your opinion on the following........

1) How much would it cost to bring a court action against a lawyer ? Provision of funds can be negotiated depending of circunstances.

2) How long would it take ? It depends on if there is settlement or not. A negotiated settlement usually takes 2-6 months and a Court action, depending on Court and jurisdiction, might take up to 19 months on average

3) Since I paid this money to this person in 2004/5, could he have a legitament defence and say he can't remember ? Not remembering is not a defence

4) This person handed my file to my new lawyer in 2008, and my new lawyer informed me that it did not contain any Banking details of the Aifos Bank, again could his defence be that he cannot remember as he no longer has the file ? Same answer as previous number

5) Are lawyers required to keep records of financial transactions, if so, for how long ? There is no rule on number of years by the National Ethics Code, and would these type of payments be part of the financial records ? Need to be

In any case, the judicial administrators of Aifos need to have proof of all these transactions

Hi Fazarelli,

Thanks for the reply however when you say,.."if there are 49 buyers and we all use the same bank"

I wish,I wish, If only it was that simple,  in my case I am on my own, I guess there must be hundreds, if not thousands, of other buyers in the same position, and this is how they have us over a barrel, there is no reason for buyers to be aware of each others existence until the sh*t hits the fan, the system is achieving the best way for the developers/lawyers/agents to beat the "enemy" without deliberately lifting a finger i.e.divide and conquer !!             

If you think back to when you initially began the procedure with your Agent, you would not be aware of who else was going to purchase, then when you were provided with a lawyer, again you would have no idea if any of the other buyers were using his services, and when as in my case the apartments were never built, you were never given the opportunity of meeting other buyers. Consequently regarding other buyers you are in the dark from day one.  

I have written to my original lawyer and AIFOS requesting these details, on numerous occasions and I have never received a reply.

I have also written to the Judicial Administrators of AIFOS and they refuse to give me any information, even though my current lawyer assures me that they have all of AIFOS's banking details and the other buyers details ??

I would have thought that AIFOS would be encouraging buyers to go down this route and be more than willing to impart the necessary information so the buyers can deal with the banks, which in turn would shrink the AIFOS's Creditor's list.

We can only live in hope !!

Hi Maria,

Thank you for taking the time to reply, we do appreciate your advice and will bear it in mind in the future.

Kind regards

Hi belucky,

Yes, i know what you mean. However, Maria said that the judicial adminstrators will have all the bank transaction information and she will contact them for the banking details if there is no other way of finding out. So, I would imagine you will be OK.

I couldn't agree more Belucky.

Maria, you quoted "In any case, the judicial administrators of Aifos need to have proof of all these transactions "

However, Belucky has sadly proved that judicial administrators are not willing to provide Banking information.

We also know that Bar Associations appear to have no power to force conveyancing lawyers to identify the financial Banking details.......

All too often where developer breach of contract has occurred and original conveyancing lawyers lacked due diligence or worse still demonstrated a conflict of interests, denial of vital financial information and failure to provide the BG directly to the offplan purchaser appears to have impeded their ability to enact a successful claim against the Bank.

Keith Rule makes reference to the fact that the Banco de Espana and the Spanish Government have failed to ensure that Ley 57/68 is respected & applied in its entirety. He has also astutely identified many other aspects within the full text of his BG petition http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/text.htm that apply to failings addressed within this thread, so I would encourage everyone to re-read this text to appreciate the relevance of this petition to their current legal positions. For instance he quotes “where developer goes bankrupt, that Banks are jointly and severally liable for all offplan deposit funds they accept into their custody”.

The petition statement “unscrupulous & negligent agents, lawyers, developers & banks must not be allowed to have any opportunity to abuse the inalienable rights granted by Ley 57/68 to the purchasers whose offplan deposits MUST be fully protected at ALL times.” could not be more relevant than now, and I urge you all to follow this through in writing to your political representatives.

All those in this position should therefore be writing to their MP's MEP's, (www.writetothem.com) highlighting the problems and requesting that Keith's BG petition www.bankguaranteesinspain.com be urgently reviewed and addressed in its entireity, in order to make the Banks fully accountable.

Dear Belucky and all:

Good morning!

Aifos administrators will have to obey Judges request when this information is asked through what is called " diligencias preliminares". Previous judicial steps which are there to help you build the action and by which, once you duly justify and argument the Judge the reasons why,  Courts help you to find whatever you need for your action

Cheers,

María

Thank you Maria.

Can this " diligencias preliminares" also be applied to lawyers where applicable?

 Yes, they can. When applicable.

Would " diligencias preliminares"  therefore be applicable in a generic BG claim if the financial information has not been made available by the conveyancing lawyer, in order to avoid a protracted legal appeal that the Bank may pursue/challenge?

Might be.

Thank you Maria...

Hi Fazarelli,

 You wrote............"Yes, i know what you mean. However, Maria said that the judicial administrators will have all the bank transaction information and she will contact them for the banking details if there is no other way of finding out. So, I would imagine you will be OK"

I have written to the Judicial Administrators on several occasions in July/August/September/ and October 2011 and each time they have refused to divulge any of Aifos's information, and from what my lawyer says they will have access to the necessary papers, however for whatever reason they will not pass it on.

I am sure that if anyone can glean this information from the Jud. Admin. it will be Maria, so when she does, can you send me the details of the person to whom I should write.

Cheers.

Hi belucky,

I don't know if you had missed this earlier post by Maria because there were quite a few in a short space of time:-

Dear Belucky and all:

Good morning!

Aifos administrators will have to obey Judges request when this information is asked through what is called " diligencias preliminares". Previous judicial steps which are there to help you build the action and by which, once you duly justify and argument the Judge the reasons why, Courts help you to find whatever you need for your action

Cheers,

María

I wouldn't have thought that the Judicial Administrators would simply reply to anyone who asks for information like that. But they are under obligation to reply to a court, which is the route that Maria would go for you/us.

Unless you are saying that you don't want legal representation and are planning on taking the bank or lawyer to court yourself.

Hi Fazarelli,

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am not familiar with your circumstances or your court case, and when you say........ I wouldn't have thought that the Judicial Administrators would simply reply to anyone who asks for information like that. But they are under obligation to reply to a court, which is the route that Maria would go foryou/us.  

In fact it was my lawyer who suggested that I should contact the Jud. Adm. so I assume that he did not believe that there was any reason for them not to give me the information.  I gave them all the necessary details to identify myself and the reason for the request, I also informed them that I was on the AIFOS Creditors List and that by giving me the information it could result in me being removed from the list.   I even offered to apply in person so as to help with the identification.

With regard to the "court " you mention, I take it that it is the "diligencias preliminares" and it is going to be convened purely for the purpose of Maria etc. to request the Judge to order the Jud.Adm. people to divulge the details of the AIFOS Banks, and then Maria etc. will be in a position to sue these Banks  or have I got it all wrong ??