aifos getting away with it

With regard to the "court " you mention, I take it that it is the "diligencias preliminares" and it is going to be convened purely for the purpose of Maria etc. to request the Judge to order the Jud.Adm. people to divulge the details of the AIFOS Banks, and then Maria etc. will be in a position to sue these Banks or have I got it all wrong ??

Yes, that is how i understood it.

Perhaps the question to ask is how can the Bank(s) be classed as preferential creditor(s) over and above the purchasers rights in any administration procedings, when the Bank(s) failed to protect purchasers deposited monies as per Law 57/68 in the first place?

Are the adminstrators protecting all assets until such time as they decide who qualifies for return of monies, and in this process where do purchasers who have been denied their rights according to ley 57/68 stand?

The banks lent the initial money to the developer to get the project undertaken - probably money for land, site investigations, remedial work maybe, plant hire, advertisement etc. We, as purchasers lent money also, but we were second in that chain i suppose. I would wager that the purchasers have paid more money than the banks though. I reckon that my development has recieved about €40-50M from deposits, but i doubt that the banks costs initially were more, probably just a few million.

Btw, my situation is that i paid for an apartment in 2003; have no bank guarantee; have sued the developer and they are skint (Aifos) and only people that know the bank details of where the deposits were paid is my bank in Spain. They won't tell me unless i go there in person, but i ain't going anywhere near Spain until ive got my deposit back. Although i could pay a solicitor over there to get it for me but ive been quoted about €300. Anyway, this is where (hopefully) Maria comes in forces the issue with a court order.

With regard to whom the administrators choose to allocate money to, i don't know, except the banks are the primary (or whatever it is called) creditor. However, i'm pretty sure that i terminated the contract with the developer during the law suit a few years ago, so i doubt i would be on that list anyway.

HI ads,and Fazarelli

If I could explain that the Buyers were charged over 1,100 Euros to be placed on the AIFOS Creditors List, and  we were given the following information quite recently after a meeting, during which it was agreed that we would be given only 45% of our deposits back, but it would not commence until TEN YEARS AFTER THE AGREEMENT HAS BEEN APPROVED  ??

I don't know when this agreement will be approved, or who actually approves it ???

It is only then on the TENTH YEAR will the first payment began, and we will receive our second payment in year ELEVEN, and so on until our final payment in the FIFTEENTH YEAR.

So, for example, if the agreement is approved in 2015, we will start getting our money back in 2025, and our final payment in 2030

It is absolutely disgraceful, bearing in mind that a lot of people paid their deposits, myself included, around 2003/2004.

Also the categories of "Creditors" have been described to me as follows :-...........

Privileged Creditor......( i.e. Banks who hold a mortgage on the property. Also employees wages, Social Security )

Ordinary Creditors......( i.e. Purchasers who litigated and obtained a final ruling on their case )

Subordinate Creditors............No further information.

Contingent Creditors..............No further information.

As can be seen the future looks very bleak with regard to recouping any money from AIFOS

 Firstly this is My Interpretation of the situation .

Aifos is in recievership and the courts appointed an administrator, to register as a creditor you need to employ the services of a barrister and pay a fee usually around 1000 -1500 plus IVA.( you have 30 days from the date of the announcement to register)

This does not mean you get money back but it acknowledges your debt and puts you in the position of a creditor after the SOCIAL SECURITY , BANKS , TAX ETC  .

As with administration /bankruptcy in the U.K YOU NEVER GET ALL YOUR MONEY BACK SOMETIMES YOU GET 10P IN THE POUND , SAME IN SPAIN.

The court appointed administrator does not release bank statements from the affected company to any creditor but prepares a report for the judge to sign of and then disposes of the assets.

Other options open to affected parties are as follows 

1,criminal claim for misappropriation which could result in a custodial sentence 

2. Claim against the bank under 57/68 bank guarantee law who handled your deposits 

I hope this helps 

1,

Hi Clarice,

Thank you for your reply and it coincides with everything that my lawyer has told me, except for one point............

From what you are saying it appears that we may be in a catch 22 situation whereby we need AIFOS's Banking details to claim from  the Banks under LEY 57/68 because we were not provided with a Bank Guarantee.  Now you are saying that we can't obtain the banks details unless we are claiming against the Bank under 57/68.

If we were given a Bank Guarantee we would not require AIFOS's Banking details.

Cheers

 Hi belucky ,

Thank you for your positive response , my understanding of law 57/68 is as follows that when you pay your payments the contract will say where your money is to go to and that bank should then issue the bank guarantee .I do know that some clients paid agents but that shouldnt matter as they will have paid the money on to ther builder .

I belive that some builders changed banks midstream and  the claim can be made against the original bank who issued the guarentee in this case even tho they didnt recieve the funds.

Of course with Aifos one cannot be sure they ever requested a bank Guarentee or even declared themselves as constructors - this group apparently has been bankrupt before when the were called Sofia ( aifos backwards )........

Not a lot of help to you I know 

Hi Clarice,

Your first paragraph is spot on,at least in theory, unfortunately these so called professional people, i.e. Spanish Lawyers and Spanish Banks have not been playing by the rules, they have completely ignored a 44 year old Spanish Law, which was brought into being for the sole purpose of protecting "Off Plan" money, and the powers that be, allowed it to happen.

I was not given a B.G. nor did my Contract include any details of  the Bank or the account into which my Spanish Lawyer deposited the money, for AIFOS, which is why I am trying to ascertain this information.

Cheers

 Hi Belucky ,

You have probably done this but why not ask  your lawyer who deposited the funds where he sent them and if he wont tell you claim against his college insurance  for negilgence . He know or lets hope he knows that  when he puts the money in the builder hand he should get the guarentee at that moment . So it negligence on his part . Y6ou can find his college number using the internet if he is a lawyer that is and not a damn asesoria 

Hi Clarice,

Yes I have asked my original Spanish Lawyer....(who is still practicing).. to give me the details of the bank into which he deposited my money for AIFOS, but to no avail.   He maintains that...  1)   He cannot remember where he paid my money in 2004/5 ;  2)   He maintains that all my paperwork was in the file that he handed to my new lawyer in 2008 ;   3)   My new lawyer has sent to me copies of Bank transactions from me, paying my money into the original Lawyers bank account, but there is nothing in the file showing into which Bank the old lawyer paid my money for AIFOS;   4)   My latest two requests to my old lawyer have now gone unanswered, which is why I made enquiries with the Jud. Adm people.

I know his college number and his business address etc.etc. but trying to find a Spanish Law Firm that is willing to take action against a "COLLEAGUE", is like trying to juggle soot.     In fact every law firm that I have spoken to have stated that I will have a far better chance of claiming from the Bank !!

 Be lucky ....... Thasts rubbish he can go to his bank who have records going back 10 years and they will tell him  and yes you can sue a lawyer in Spain , we are !!!

I am worried now because if you cant PROVE   you /your lawyer paid Aifos how are you going to claim under 57/68 without evidence of payment in any form ?????

Belucky and all....FYI please see the following detail that is included within Keith Rule's BG petition text.

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/bankguarantees.htm

The petition has now closed but whether or not you have submitted evidence to this petition, everyone needs to bring the facts contained in the BG text  http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/text.htm  to the attention of MP's, MEP's if we are all to make any headway on a fast track solution to this problem, as identified by Keith Rule.

All too many people are going round in circles trying desperately to achieve return of their monies, and all too often the route to justice is being thwarted by all manner of obstacles, whether this be abusive court delays, developers asset stripping/ declaring insolvency, lawyers denying vital financial information to their clients or worse still demonstrating conflict of interests, inconsistent judicial rulings etc etc. The litigation teams who are committed to protecting their clients must be as frustrated as we all are by these major obstacles, so surely it's in everyone's interests that we all stand together to educate the powers that be and progress a fast track solution.

Hi Clarice,

Thank you for your reply and it coincides with everything that my lawyer has told me, except for one point............

From what you are saying it appears that we may be in a catch 22 situation whereby we need AIFOS's Banking details to claim from the Banks under LEY 57/68 because we were not provided with a Bank Guarantee. Now you are saying that we can't obtain the banks details unless we are claiming against the Bank under 57/68.

If we were given a Bank Guarantee we would not require AIFOS's Banking details.

Cheers

It's not really a catch 22 situation because, as Maria says, you can simply ask the Judicial Adminstrators (via the court system/lawyer) for the bank account/payment details. Why would you need the bank details if you weren't taking the bank to court?

Wouldnt you say the more concerning aspect of this case of Be L.uckys is the fact his previous lawyer refuses to prove payment to Aifos ????????

 Fazarreli ... no I  DONT   and that wasnt the point of my post either

 The converstaion was between Be Lucky and I and we discussed things sensibly if you have nothing to contribute to our discussion dont waste time .

 no I didnt read the thread I was in conversation with Be lucky , Thank you for your arrogant  attitude , no wonder most people are leaving this site with behaviour like yours!!