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WE are intending to bring an english reg car and stay in Spain for upto 3 months at a time as we do not wish to apply for residency, how long do we have to stay out of spain for until another 3 months?
Thanks
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The law say in Spain ‘permanently’ for 3 months.
I have not been able to discover what that exactly means.
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It used to be, when that applied to having a car here, that a trip to GIB or Portugal would start the three months again.
That may apply to the Registration rule.
BUT, remember, if one is present in Spain for a total of 183 days in any year they become TAX RESIDENT.
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"BUT, remember, if one is present in Spain for a total of 183 days in any year they become TAX RESIDENT."
Johnzx, is it still 183 days in a calendar year or have the rules changed?
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.......................... if one is present in Spain for a total of 183 days in any year .............
Yes, any yera, not any 12 months
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How about if you are one of lifes "floaters"? Without a permanent residency in any country, trying to avoid all personal taxes? Then you certainly belong to a "specimen in danger of extinction" in today's well-regulated and well-controlled Europe. It is only a question of time...
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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We have spent up to a 183 days a year in Spain for the last 6 years. But if we did happen to go over that time limit, who would tell us?.
Patricia
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It would be difficult for the authorities to know as there are various ways in and out of Spain by road, ie France, Portugal and Morocco and each time I come and go I never get my passport stamped.
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Yes that is what I thought who is going to check up on you then!
. Our passport's have not been stamped for year's!
Patricia
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Your passport doesn't need to be stamped. There are entry and exit records if you come in / out by air or ferry. But it would only become an issue if the query was raised with "the authorities". If they were to claim you WERE here for 183 days or more, it would be up to you to prove you weren't, with flights or ferry receipts, or receipts for hotel stays over the border in Portugal or France etc.
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Blog about settling into a village house in the Axarquía. http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/tamara.aspx
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That wouldn't be difficult would it, as one could always say i was staying with friends in whichever adjoining country, so not an impossible scenario if a person is determined espeically as a "floater" which is a fairly common scenario in Spain.
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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So why would one want to remain invisible?
Not the majority of people who are normal, average-law abiding people, who just want to get on with their lives.
Ok maybe some want to evade/avoid taxes. But the tax authorities don’t just let people not pay tax. They allow them to pay in in the jurisdictions decided by law and double taxation agreements. Thus, a tax authority can demand to know where one pays the tax, which would normally pay in that county. If the person cannot show that they have paid it legally elsewhere, then they are in trouble.
As for passports not being stamped: Don’t be fooled into believing that is the only way you can be traced. The regulatory authorities are not stupid, albeit that some would like to think they are. Bank accounts, bank transfers and withdrawals, ATM transactions, credit cards, medical records, CCTV (on motorways, border crossing, garages, shops, etc.) vehicle insurance payments, utility accounts, telephone records, (mobile phones that are just turned on leave a lasting trail, available I believe for at least seven years) neighbours who can say how long you have been living at an address, postmen, internet service providers, just to mention a few of the ways we leave tracks, are all available to the authorities, it they decide you are a big enough fish to investigate.
No sorry to destroy the illusion that it is simple to remain off the radar. If you are worth catching they will catch you, if you are not worth catching, then why would anyone want to go the all the inconvenience, and trouble ?
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As long as income is tax registered somewhere, the only issue I can see is if there is a serious health problem when you would have to return to tax base asap . Unless of course you can afford private medical care.
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you would have to return to uk every year to get mot tax and insurance or are you one of the hundreds who drive with out insurance rember your car must be leagal in country of residency
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The scenario of a floater ie living off grid is achieved by many people. People who are iIndependently wealthy and living in Spain and many other countries, with a tax free income and living below the radar. It is possible to achieve this with some creative accounting and owning property outside of Spain. The scenario you paint John is that of a fugitive and wanted by the authorities. I was simply painting a picture of people living off grid and no-one is aware of where they reside. It is achieveable to do this without breaking any laws, Some may say morally wrong but this depends where ones moral compass lies. As a retired solicitor with friends still working in the legal system, it is common practice eg to advise people to put their utility bills in different names both here and in the USA, as identify fraud is on the up and by simply having your gas, electricity and phone in different names can help against the war on ID theft. You can chose to be known by whatever name you want provided it is not with intent to defraud. You can do this withoutn a deed poll or stat declaration, just by saying my name is such and such. Meanwhile back at the ranch I reside in the UK and pay my taxes. And since the 1980's indirect taxation here has been rising totalling approximately 78%, which leaves mant of us with aproximately 22% disposable income. I guess the fact that statistics such as these do encourage many people to look at creative ways to keep more money in their pockets. A distinxct example of this has been shown to us all by our leaders, who also engage in such practices!
I have no objection to the authorities investigating and tracking people who indulge or engage in illegal activities, but in the days of greater and greater state intervention tracking of private individuals if for no other reason than collecting information in case on day they do commit a crime. There are more and more people that do wish to stay off the radar, and I acknowledge it’s not possible to be completely untraceable, but this is a growing desire now. Some of your examples are easily countered while others are pretty much impossible to counter.
Also, there are a growing number of people who just wish to live their lives privately without the state constantly prying on their activities.
Therefore, I assert that many people can and do come in and out of Spain and other countries without the authorities necessarily knowing their country of taxation.
Thankfully I am retired and pay my taxes, but still looking for Nirvana to spend my disposable income lol.
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Foxilady, ,
You are of course quite correct one can use ‘almost’ any name they like in UK as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes (I changed my name by common law 30 years ago so know very well the law on that ** ) but one cannot do that in Spain where even a woman getting married cannot choose to use her husband’s surnames instead of her own. To change a name here needs judicial approval, which is hardly ever given.
And of course, in Spain we have the NIE for foreigners and DNI for Spaniards. Thus, one cannot, without a fair degree of illegality, sign up for utility contracts in another name. Even when buying a SIM card one must produce legal ID. I believe there is still a requirement for hotels, hostels and car rental companies to supply lists of their customers to the police.
At one time people were able to use a Power of Attorney to operate bank accounts etc in anothers name, but that too has been altered recently, and now one must declare when they have such a PoA.
‘Disappearing’ in UK maybe a lot simpler than in Spain, where people are required to notify changes of address to the town hall and every one must carry legal ID at all times.
And as I said, if the authorities choose to investigate then there are many avenues available.
As you will know, there are quite a number of people who have been convicted who thought they were getting away with it, until they were caught
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** Surprisingly though there is no law in the UK which says one can change their name, even on marriage, but there is also no law which says one cannot.
In UK one can normally expect to be allowed to do anything with is not prohibited by law. Whereas, conversely, in Spain one cannot normally do something unless there is a law which says you can.
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wow Spain is a lot stricter isn't it? We're on the same page though with the legal aspects. Interesting info John. I particularly like the law regarding being married. Here in the UK its a helluva job to prove someone is married.
Thanx for the info John and yes I do recall those dubious members of UK society who were caught on the Costas in the late 80's and early 90's.
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Proving marriage etc.
In Spain each family has a legal document known as the ‘Family Book’ in which marriages, births, deaths, divorce etc. are recorded. Thus one can prove such matters by producing the book.
When my wife, a non-European, was renewing her Residencia in Spain, we had to prove we were still married. Of course in the UK that cannot be done. One can only prove they got married or got divorced.
We had to get a certificate from the British Consulate to say that I had said on oath that I was still married, for which I think I had to pay 325 euros, but that is another beef.
Yes, Spain is a lot more ‘controlled’.
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Tamara.
Quote If they were to claim you WERE here for 183 days or more, it would be up to you to prove you weren't, with flights or ferry receipts, or receipts for hotel stays over the border in Portugal or France etc.
I am not sure you are correct on that.
I think they would have to prove you had been here ‘too long’ otherwise it would mean you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.
That is Napoleonic Law which I believe applies in France but not in Spain.
I am open to correction.
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