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Baz, I think that you will find that we never refuse to treat anyone who turns up at A&E. We treat them, then worry about payment, if appropriate, afterwards. That's how people run up huge bills and then skip without paying a penny. It was well know when my wife worked at a surgery in Ashford, Middlesex , that people would fly into Heathrow and head straight to Ashford hospital to get free treatment!
I also think that it's a new strategy that Spain may no be honouring the EHIC due to the current economic situation. Everyone we have spoken to over the years in Spain have nothing but praise for the treatment they have received.
As John said it seem like a very small number of people having problems. I think that I will take his advice and ask for the complaints form if I am ever in that position. Also, perhaps carry the telephone number of the consulate!
Mike
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Baz, I think that you will find that we never refuse to treat anyone who turns up at A&E. We treat them, then worry about payment, if appropriate, afterwards. That's how people run up huge bills and then skip without paying a penny. It was well know when my wife worked at a surgery in Ashford, Middlesex , that people would fly into Heathrow and head straight to Ashford hospital to get free treatment!
Yes i know we never refuse treatment to anyone, that is a big problem here, what i mean is if Spain can refuse treatment (If indeed it is happening) on the universal card and get away with it, why dont England do the same, stop treating overseas patients who come to the UK, do the same as it seems Spain is doing now, and if the EU kicks up a fuss ignore it.
Somewhere somehow this has to be stopped and changed and the only way it will be stopped or changed is if someone says enough is enough.
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"It may be that there are only 120 complaints but how many people complain?"
Good point. It's probably happening an awful lot more than we realise. I heard recently about an expat, who is correctly registered on the Spanish system as a pensioner, being charged at the Hospital Costa del Sol for emergency treatment after a minor accident (car run over foot!) Apparently they were told roadside accidents are not covered by their social security registration. I didn't believe it when I heard it and suspsected a misunderstanding of some sort. I may have been right in a way - not speaking any Spanish, and being a typical uncomplaining Brit, they just accepted it. So it would appear it's not just tourists using the EHIC. Any gullible foreigner is fair game. There's no way they'd get away with it with a Spaniard. I agree with xetog, it's probably all part of the austerity measures. Still, could be worse, at least the neo-Nazi nationalist nutters aren't marching (yet), demanding all immigrants (us!) are burnt at the stake (which we would no doubt have to pay for first)
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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It covers pre-existing conditions such as kidney dialysis, INR Monitoring etc. It will also cover asthma attacks, diabetic treatment etc. These are classed as an emergency. Any other non-emergency treatment is provided at the discretion of the doctor. It should not be regarded as a routine method, for example you should bring sufficient medication for your stay but, in case of problems, a doctor can issue prescriptions and decide if you should pay the full amount. The money can be claimed back from the NHS on return to UK. For those owning property, some areas (and I know different regions have different rules but it works like this in my area) by signing on the padron they will issue a temporary healthcard for 3 months enabling you to see a GP but you have to pay the 40% prescription charge even if you are a pensioner. Again, you can claim this back from the NHS on return to UK. The Spanish government is adamant that their rules give free treatment if appropriate but maybe some clinics are unsure of the rules. The hospital at Torrevieja accepts the EHIC as a matter of routine but they probably deal with so many expats they are well used to it. Those who live in Spain but use the EHIC are, quite frankly, cheating the system. I know of loads who live here, use the EHIC for a temp healthcard but go back to UK on a regular basis to see a doctor. They also retain the NHS dentist registration as well. Then again, some Brits tend to see bending the rules as a national sport.
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"Brits tend to see bending the rules as a national sport" - true, and very annoying at times, but to be fair, most of the time it's out of either sheer ignorance, or an inability to undestand exactly how the system works or what the correct thing to do is. On the other hand, bending, or rather simply breaking, the rules at an institutional and governmental level is thoroughly inbuilt into Spanish culture. I'm not sure what's worse - abusing the system, or being abused by the system.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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I was talking to a friend this afternoon.
He was back in UK visiting his daughter. He is now 80, that was last month. He became dizzy so his daughter insisted that she take him the A and E in an NHS Hospital in UK. He produced his Euro health card and they refused to even examine him unless he paid private.
So I guess this is not one sided.
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That's rather worrying, isn't it? Perhaps the States have the best system after all - at least everyone knows where they stand!
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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That is almost unbelievably John. Many in the UK have been complaining that we need get tough on health tourism but not to accept the EHIC is not what was meant.
very worrying indeed,
M
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This is why it's easier to cheat the system, he should have just given his daughters address they would not have known any different, as far as I know the hospital computers are not linked to any computers that will tell them this patient has emigrated to Spain.
This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 31/05/2013.
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Poppyseed
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When the EHIC is used in a participating country, the home country of the patient is billed for the treatment, thus is does not cost the country providing the treatment a penny.
But as I said, Spain insist the money is sent, by the billed countries, to Madrid. It is Madrid (Central Government) who 'force' their medical facilities to be 'inventive' and use other methods, i.e.. trying to insist on a patient paying privately or an insurance company picking up the bill, so that they get paid for the service which they have provided.
Poppyseed
This is why it's easier to cheat the system, he should have just given his daughters address they would not have known any different, as far as I know the hospital computers are not linked to any computers that will tell them this patient has emigrated to Spain
There is no need to cheat. The reason the EHIC exists is to ensure we get the medical care we need when travelling.
But on your point. The medical records are noted when a person goes to live in another country, as that country (Spain) is paid around £3,500 p.a. by the DWP to provide 'national health' care for the person.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 01/06/2013.
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When the EHIC is used in a participating country, the home country of the patient is billed for the treatment, thus is does not cost the country providing the treatment a penny.
But as I said, Spain insist the money is sent, by the billed countries, to Madrid. It is Madrid (Central Government) who 'force' their medical facilities to be 'inventive' and use other methods, i.e.. trying to insist on a patient paying privately or an insurance company picking up the bill, so that they get paid for the service which they have provided.
True in the words you say but not true in the reality, Spain, and no doubt every other country charges England for any and all medical care done to Brits whilst having medical care in Spain, and other countries, and England pays.....When any foreign person, Spanish included, have any medical care done in England, England hardly charges a penny for this care, excuses are, no system to recover all the costs, too time consuming to send out invoices, lack of staff to carry out this work....and the NHS had quite a few more to add to the list when questioned by the powers to be.
If you can view the figures you will be quite surprised at the amounts we pay out, but dont charge back.
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Roberto
Apparently they were told roadside accidents are not covered by their social security registration.
When I took out my Spanish private health insurance I was told that it does not cover "traffic accidents". I was sold an additional cover for about €30 per year so that if I was involved in a RTA then I would be covered. Maybe this is why the ex-pats you were mentioning fell foul of this problem. However how should I know as I am only an ex-pat who tries to get by in Spain.
As I said in my earlier comment regarding the U.K., after speaking to Newcastle, if in the U.K. and a doctor or hospital refuses to give you 'emergency' treatment on the correct EHIC then demand that the 'provider' telephones Newcastle and not the local NHS trust or whoever they usually telephone. Newcastle will tell them categorically what is and what is not covered. As stated to me the 'simple' request for a repeat prescription is considered as an emergency and covered although I personally would not have thought that constituted an emergency. So it pays to speak to Newcastle. For those who do not know the telephone number it is on the back of the EHIC card.
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Stephen
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Baz,
if the DWP does not recover the cost of treating patients from other countries, UK that is a UK problem. Nothing to do with your "European Health card" in Spain
But I am glad to hear that at least some of my taxes paid in UK are being used for something more important than supporting those on benefits, who are too lazy to work..
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Steone
Prescriptions are not an emergency but as I posted (repeated below) that is one of the many situations which are covered
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/countryguide/Pages/healthcareinSpain.aspx
Before you consult a doctor or hospital (ambulatorio), ensure that they accept your European Health Insurance card (EHIC). Some hospitals and health centres (centro sanitario) offer both, private and state-provided healthcare and it is up to you to inform them, which services you require. Remember, any costs incurred for private healthcare are non-refundable and not covered by your EHIC.
Doctors
State-provided healthcare is free of charge. Be aware that hotels and tour operators generally call or recommend a private doctor who will charge you. They might reassure visitors that they can claim back whatever is paid out, but they are referring to private insurance and not the EU arrangements.
In some parts of the country, particularly the outlying islands, you may have to travel some distance to find a state healthcare provider. If you need to call out a doctor in an emergency, make sure you have an EHIC and ask for state funded healthcare.
Please be aware that doctors, health centres and hospitals may have separate surgery times for private patients and those treated under the state system. Also, if you are asked to pay up front, you are not being treated under the Spanish health service and your EHIC will not be accepted.
Dentists
Dental treatment is generally not available under the state system and the costs are not refundable.
Hospital treatment
You will need a doctor's referral for any hospital treatment, except in emergencies. However, you should try to go to a public hospital as only those hospitals offer treatment free of charge. Make sure you can present your EHIC on admission otherwise you will be charged as a private patient. Costs incurred for private treatment are not refundable.
Prescriptions
Medicines prescribed by health service practitioners can be obtained from any pharmacy (farmacia). You will be charged up to 40% of the cost unless you are a UK or EEA pensioner. However, you must be able to prove that you are a state pensioner, otherwise you will have to pay. This is non-refundable in Spain but you may be able to seek reimbursement when you are back in the UK.
If you are told by a hospital that you require medicines following your discharge, you must take the hospital medical report to a doctor, who will give you a prescription. This is because doctors in public hospitals will prescribe medicines on the appropriate medical report but do not issue official prescriptions.
Ambulance
If you require an ambulance, ask the hospital to confirm that it offers state-provided health care.
Air ambulance
No information available
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Unfortunately my two grand daughters (my son comes to Spain several times a year) have needed to attend doctor / hospital quite a few times. They have always received high quality treatment on E111 and more recently EHIC, and there has never been a question of my son having to pay.
As I said before, 120 complaints out of 11,000,000 UK visitors a year.
That's just about 1 in every 100,000.
Allowing for those who possibly tried to claim when not entitled, and human error, I consider that is a very low chance that one might be affected.
But to put that into perspective:
1 in 100,000 is the risk of being murdered in the UK, and people don't make official complaints about that !!!! !
This message was last edited by johnzx on 01/06/2013.
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Repeat prescriptions are an emergency as drugs are not usually prescribed unecessarily. As for medical records being noted when someone goes abroad I understand that Newcastle record this on their systems, my point was that I as far as I am aware hospitals nationwide are not linked into this information. Whenever I have gone for a hospital appointment I have just been asked if I have lived in the UK for the last 12 months as part of the name, address, date of birth rigmarole. Of course there should be no need to cheat but in the circumstances being described it's probably easier.
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Poppyseed
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BBC radio 4 talked about this yesterday and the general advice was if you have to go to hospital while on holiday, do not say that you have private insurance. It seems to be that the hospital will prefer to get the money locally through an insurer, rather than through Madrid.
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Poppy Of course there should be no need to cheat but in the circumstances being described it's probably easier.
Is that your euphemism for committing criminal fraud ? Because that’s what it would be.
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Steone: " When I took out my Spanish private health insurance I was told that it does not cover "traffic accidents". I was sold an additional cover for about €30 per year so that if I was involved in a RTA then I would be covered. Maybe this is why the ex-pats you were mentioning fell foul of this problem. However how should I know as I am only an ex-pat who tries to get by in Spain".
Except that they weren't using private insurance - they are registered on the Spanish national health system and were in a public hopsital. 
As for the last pompous post, shouldn't it be easier to obey the law than break it? The point being made here is that the "system" is often so complicated and flawed, and those administering it so incompetent and ill-informed, that in many cases people feel they have no choice.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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if the DWP does not recover the cost of treating patients from other countries, UK that is a UK problem. Nothing to do with your "European Health card" in Spain
Correct John but what, if any card do you use should you require treatment in the UK and you are from Spain? point i am making is if Spain wants to refuse or make you pay should you be an ex-pat or holiday maker, then the UK should do the same to Spain and others...probably like Spain is doing, it's not so much an England problem as an EU one, they made the rules, Spain is...so folk are saying breaking them and getting away with it.... so it is one which should be sorted out.
And i do have to agree with Poppyseed that it's a whole lot easier with many things to cheat the system then play by the rules.
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