Spanish Justice?

I'm concerned by the number of instances encountered where the Spanish police instantly side with their compatriot without any thought as to the rights or wrongs of the disagreement.

The following is a news article today that struck a cord as I had a similar incident a year ago.  We ate in a tourist area and when the waiter brought the bill it didn't make sense and was double what it should have been.  Suddenly he became tongue tied and couldn't speak a word of English, then he seemingly decided he couldn't even speak Spanish!   He just kept on pointing at the inflated total on the bill.   He thought we would back down and pay the inflated amount - but we just put down the cash on the table for the right amount and walked off.  I wondered at the time how the police would react - now I know!

Of course these situations are a rarity - but IMHO it is about time that the Spanish police were less partisan and joined the 21st century.

A British couple on a cycling holiday in Spain had their trip turned upside down over a "non-existent" paella.

Geoff Cox and his girlfriend Bridget Keyes, from Newdigate in Surrey, found themselves thrown in a Spanish jail and handed a large fine of around £600 when they refused to pay for a paella they didn't eat.

The couple had been enjoying a trip from Cordoba to Granada, and stopped to enjoy some local fare in the latter.

But, at the end of the meal, they saw an extra paella, worth €15, had been added to the bill.

They refused to pay it and all hell broke loose.

According to This Is Surrey Today, Mr Cox said: "We pointed this out and he went off like a firecracker and a row ensued.

"We put down €105 and said we would pay that, but he wanted €120.

"It got a bit ugly and when he said he would call the police we said, 'Right, fine', because we were certain they would side with us."

But when the police arrived, the pair were arrested. They were thrown in separate cells for the night, were fingerprinted, had their shoelaces confiscated, and were given no food or water.

The next day they were given access to a lawyer and a translator.

Speaking to the the Express, Mr Cox said: "I was told I was charged with assault on the police, resisting arrest and defrauding a restaurant, that these were criminal charges and I could get a year in jail. Plus we were told the police had filed for damages against us."

When the case was put before the court seven hours later the criminal charges were dropped.

But the Spanish prosecutor still ensured they had to pay a €78 fine, and damages to the police of €250 each.

The couple also had to pay €200 to come back to Granada from the next stop on their holiday, Seville, to have attend court two days later.

They estimated the incident cost them around €700 (£600) in total.

Speaking to the Daily Mail, Mr Cox said: "I'm an ordinary, middle class, respectable citizen who has never had any trouble with the police.

"It's a bloody outrage and we must still make sure our fine gets paid to the right place.

"If it gets lost in the system we could find ourselves facing a European extradition warrant, so I'm still worried about it."

It's difficult to fully appraise the issue of the Geoff Cox and his girlfirend as the facts are rather brief.

However, in my rather limited experience of ordering and eating Paella in Spain it is usually sold to order, for a minimum of two people and charged per person. It's not clear for how many people the bill was charged.

I think it's possible to order a portion for one but usually where a large one is cooked in anticpation of multiple orders.

Perhaps it was all a misunderstanding that got out of hand?!

A simple request for the 'Hojas de Reclamación' would have stopped it dead in its tracks.

there are two sides to the story  but the media reports mostly seem to only publish Mr. Cox´s version. He did order the dish by his own admission and then it seems did not want to pay the price on the menu. I am horrified that this story has gone global, mostly on sites and in papers that take the"victims" word  as the absolute truth. I have seen reports that in fact the party concerned had had a lot to drink, who can say, not me and not the media who have run with this story thats for sure. On one site I saw someone had commented that Mr. Cox looked like an honest man, so did Harold Shipman, looks prove nothing and I fear that an Englishmans word is no longer his bond. My old Dad always used to say the only thing you can believe in the paper is the date and sometimes they even get that wrong.

Hippychic your comments are extraordinary, is there a clue in the name?   You say "He did order the dish by his own admission and then it seems did not want to pay the price on the menu" - where did you get this from?  Not from the article I read that was cut n pasted below.

Do you reckon he was not really imprisoned or fined either?

The accepted rule under British law is that you are innocent until proved guilty.  So I hope for justice sake you never sit on a jury, I am sure you would be demanding a guilty verdict regardless...if the poor guy "looks innocent".  What basis of fact or logic is that?

Your comment that "an Englishman's word is no longer his bond" is equally misplaced.  I've lived and worked overseas for many years and in general terms the English are well respected.   I'm not vaguely saying that this is always justified, far from it, but please tell me which country do you reckon are generally more honest?

This is an actual reply from Mr. cox himself

"........The argument was over a vegetable paella which the waiter recommended and I ordered without reference to the menu. The others had a fish dinner for 3. When the bill came, there was a charge for 2 paellas. This is because (as I now know) paella is generally served as two portions minimum (though I ordered a paella in Cordoba which was for one). If the waiter had explained that politely, we would no doubt have been a bit disappointed and paid. But he didn’t – instead he got very angry very quickly. An argument ensued, and when we put 105 euros on the table, the waiter refused them and didn’t hesitate to bring out the rest of the staff who hung about looking menacing to stop us leaving. After 15 minutes or so arguing, the waiter called the police. When they arrived, they were as bad as the waiter – aggressively told us to pay and started demanding ID. We were in a difficult place – to give in or stand our ground. We choose the later"............

As for the principle of innocent till proven otherwise, of course I believe it applies equally to all involved. The question of "looking innocent" I did in fact question the logic of forming an opinion on how someone looks.

The englishpersons integrity, you are not the only person to live and work in other countires I have done the same myself. I still say that it is badly damaged and often for good reason. Why do i have to have to name another nationality I think may be better or worse? were is the logic in saying we are good because they are worse? What clue do you see in my name, are you making some sort of judgement based on an jokey online pen name? interesting...

lastly I do not question that some of  the incidents took place,I do question why and , from most of the articles I have seen, why the content is so onesided

This message was last edited by hippychic on 17/06/2013.

This message was last edited by hippychic on 17/06/2013.

Thanks for the additional information hippychic.  But in my mind this does not justify the local police action in throwing the chap and his wife in jail.  There are different cultures involved here and in the UK we expect justice and we do not expect the Police to act aggressively.  I cannot see the British police acting in this way, generally they will go to extreme lengths to avoid a confrontation.

You question the integrity of the English yet cannot give an example of a nation with a higher level.  Of course that there are good and bad in all nations.  But I was really taken aback by the inherent devious nature frequently found amongst nationals of some countries.  I worked mainly in the Middle East where the Arabs have some very strong politically incorrect words to say about many, including fellow Arab nations.  The politicians have helped to reduce the way that English/Brits are perceived, but in many parts we are still very much on the top tier.  It's all relative really.

So it would be interesting to hear how you justify your comment that "an Englishmen's word is no longer his bond".    You say you have a different experience - so which nation do you feel tops the poll?