Extra Fees to cover Shortfall due to Debtors

CostaBlade, I know, sorry!  Still it's promoted some good discussion and ideas.  I don't know why our fees are so high. We aren't a big urbanisation, there's one swimming pool and gardens, but nothing particularly large.  That's it, no lifts or anything like that.  We have one gardener who looks after the pool and gardens and also acts as maintenance man.  I am going to look at the next lot of accounts in depth.  We do get given copies of them but it's just a list and I've never thought to go through them properly, silly I know.

They are always complaining there's not enough money in the pot and certainly the complex isn't in particularly good repair.  I've been complaining about getting the houses painted.  It was originally in the Statutes that you weren't allowed to paint them individually as they are town houses and then the urbanisation wouldn't be uniform, and they were supposed to be painted every 5 years.  That used to happen but hasn't happened for a long time and so people have been painting their houses themselves which has resulted in the complex looking very hotpotch.  As I brought this up and because they've said there's not enough money they've now said that it's each owner's responsiblity to paint their own house which I think is wrong.

hugh_man Please can you explain "Contribution of fees is based on coefficients of square metreage of your property normally including terraces and store rooms nothing to do with footprint".  Does that mean in simple terms it's based on how big your house is?  If so why should that mean you pay more than anyone else? 

 

 

This message was last edited by RubioExPat on 04/11/2013.

This message was last edited by RubioExPat on 04/11/2013.

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Rubio

You should not pay more than anyone else with similar square metre age floor area.
A 3 storey building on the same size plot would pay more than 2 storey as total floor size is higher.

Coefficients are worked out initially, so that total budget is divided by total square metre age of the community.
Therefore each property is assigned a coefficient which all add up to 100% of the contribution to whatever budget is set.

Afraid it is every owners responsibility and right to question costs proposed in the budget at the AGM.
Do we not at least compare costs of suppliers or services on our homes in the UK? Why should your investment abroad be any different?

Perhaps more open discussion such as this will get more owners questioning their payments, not a bad thing if as CostaBlade appears to do giving owners value for money.

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Thanks Hugh_man for the explanation.  You're absolutely right about comparing services and making sure you are getting value for money.  I think the problem is being unfamiliar with what is available in a foreign country, what is a reasonable cost for something and of course the language problem.  Also not wanting to be viewed a troublemaker.   At our meetings it is very difficult to understand everything that is going on because it is in Spanish, rightly so, we are in Spain, but it doesn't make it easy for the foreigners to start questioning things.  With our community the residents don't have a good attitude towards the owners whose property is a second home which doesn't help either.

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If there was ever a reason to avoid living on a housing estate though be it in the sun you have it in shovel full here, and the excuse that they dont understand tge process of the meetings because they are in spanish is just nonsensical as the amount of money your handing over for the so called up keep of the estate could be well spent with a bilingual legal advisor to attend the meetings with you. To allow this to go on uncheckes for so long you've either more money than sence or you've over done it in the sun

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Reading of the massive amounts in community charges what some are paying is mind blowing and for sure some acts need getting together, my last place in Spain was on a community although i never did count the amount of houses at a guess i would say about a 100, it could have been double that, yet it didn't seem so.

We had a very large pool, adult and kiddies, secured fencing with hedges, with a special electronic key that was NOT issued to any owner that didn't pay the community charge, and electronally locked if you were a couple of months in areas, and every paid up owner was warned NOT to let in non-payers,  surrounding the pool area was a very good garden area, grass, palms, seating,  two showers, busy times perhaps max  10 or so in the pool, grass was cut regular, hedges trimmed regular, pool cleaners maybe every other day or sooner, fully lit up all night long.

Over the years the pool had been drained and repaired a couple of times, surrounding tiles repaired as and when, every house got every 3 months a full account of what was going to happen, what was happening at present, the monies spent on any repairs, money left over after any work done and in the bank,  every house was numbered,  and owner's name mentioned if they hadn't paid and were in areas so you knew who hadn't paid, every person got these accounts in their own language,  and sent to the home address in what ever country other then Spain you lived in,  when i bought the house the charges were 180€ every 3 months when i sold about 9/10 years later they were 260€ every 3 months.

PS. Forgot to add we never ever had to pay any more, or extra €'s for those who never paid the quarterly fee's, the boss took them to court over outstanding debts.

 

 

This message was last edited by baz1946 on 05/11/2013.

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Rubio:- I don't know why our fees are so high.

 

Why don't you get a copy of the accounts (supplied with AGM notice)  and have a look. 

There is no justfication for saying, "I don't know why our fees are so high.

 

As Hugh says, the percentage of the costs which you are liable for is stated in your Escritura  (the larger the floor area the larger the percentage).  I have friend who knows that the figure shown in her escritura is incorrect (too high) an error from when the community was established. She has not bothered to get it corrected as it may be expensive for her or she is too lazy.

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Casperruby, We paid for our own translator to attend a couple of meetings with us and guess what the people who always voted to keep the pools etc wanted her to translate for them too!! Years ago it was agreed there would be a translator at meetings paid for by the community but this president stopped that.  On another occassion the rebels had a Spanish solicitor at the meeting to represent them and although she pushed the point quite forcibly that on several issues they were acting illegally this had no effect whatsoever, one of these points was that some owners had paid their fees into court whilst there was a legal dispute ongoing. In these cases the law is quite clear that those residents can still vote at meetings, but the president said no, the legal advisor of the president also at the meeting said no, and so those residents were not allowed to vote. I have flown to Spain for just one day at great expense in time and money to attend meetings and vote. As many owners are non resident and hardly visit the place it has been difficult and in some cases impossible to contact them to help the cause.  The other problem for the rebels is that the developer still owns about 30% of the properties so has a big influence on voting. I have requested items be put on the agenda for the AGM but the requests are ignored. We've given up on it and have decided we will never live there or anywhere else in Spain as we had originally planned to do.

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Hi poppyseed I'm sorry for the situation you find yourself in but surely just giving in is jot the answer to this terrible situation I think that estste agents that have any conscience or reputation (though probably hard to find) should avoid these type of properties and not sell them or represent the sellers atall if that was the case they would be classed as no different to timeshares and noone would touch them and the value would collapse until the situation was sorted.why move into a property where you dont own 100% of the freehold and all attachments including the poxy pool and a few bits of garden that this seems to be all about. I know its not going to help much now but anyone looking for a home in the sun buy a house and build a pool and avoid the overpriced housing estate's just because they come with a pool that you pay through the nose for.

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Casperruby, I don't feel we have 'just given in'. This situation has been ongoing since 2004/05. We  along with a few other right minded owners (mainly Spanish) spent YEARS trying to fight it and a lot of money in legal fees, many sleepless nights and a lot of abuse and stress. I can only describe the atmosphere as toxic and even now although superficially it appears to have improved it hasn't really, the bad feeling runs too deep for it to ever go away especially as the pool situation and other issues still remain. I'm sure everyone including the fools who wouldn't  fight would have thought twice if they had known what was going to happen and that the developer would  be controlling the place because he still owns so many properties, which of course potential buyers are not aware of and properties are selling but mainly to French and the odd Russian.

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Poppyseed I feel so sorry for your situation, I can only hope people looking to buy in spain do there homework and read of your misfortune and of the others in similar situations. If the Russians are buying them I dont think they will put up with this, the new moterways on the coast will need pillars perhaps held up with a few developers. ?....

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Hi Poppyseed. I've been so taken aback by the 'lease' arrangement by the developer that I'm still in a state of shock. So you're yet another one who has had their dreams of a 'simple' life in Spain ruined by the machinations of the unscrupulous. It's a pity a local newspaper couldn't take up the story of your urbanisation and the pool situation, without mentioning any sources. It might lead to something; you never know. On the other hand, maybe as others buy the developer's remaining properties, the developer will then have less say... You also say you had legal advice. I wonder if Maria on this site has any ideas about laws that could be used to combat the pool outrage; along the lines of what Keith Rules did together with Costaluz lawyers.

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Poppyseed

 

A small ray of hope is that the developer may not get away with as easily if he offends the Russian buyers who will tolerate no nonsense.

 

Amazing though to hear that so many owners allow this situation to continue and will not fight for their rights.

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The goings on in Spain are often stranger than fiction! I forgot to mention at one AGM the president jumping out of their seat, running down the room and start knocking seven bells out of one of the Spanish rebels at the point even the developer pulled them off. I have spent many years stressing about the 'wrongness' and unfairness of it all but in the end for our own sanity and wellbeing we decided to pull back,  rarely visit, speak and socilaise with  the good guys and plan to sell eventually. It's a shame the house is lovely with a pool and in a nice location but sometimes you have to cut your losses, and not just in financial terms.

 

Love casperrubys idea of reinforcing motorweay bridges!

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Hughman has observed "there is no such thing as Ombudsmen in Spain, there is OMIC for consumer complaints but no regulators for any industry as far as I can see. ".

You should all be pushing for reform in this regard and contacting your MEP's demanding that they bring lack of regulation to the attention of the European Parliament and Commission, especially as European elections are due in May next year. These incidents are going unrecorded so in the interim it's essential to put complaints in writing.

If all EOS members who have concerns with regard to lack of regulation/developer accountability issues (or Banks for that matter) were to write en masse to their MEP's they would be more likely to take notice and would have no excuse for not recognising emerging patterns of unscrupulous behaviour ...... a far more proactive approach is necessary to gain reform. Could reputable community presidents not organise themselves and adopt a more standardised approach to record their complaints?

For those with UK postcodes write via www.writetothem.com ... ...it couldn't be simpler as this website identifies all MEP's representing your area. I'm afraid I don't know if there is a similar website for Spanish residents but I'm sure you could google who is your MEP for your area.

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