NIE numbers

My wife had to go to the court in Orehuela today to sign some paperwork. She had to take all the usual ID docs and as the court interpreter was checking them, she demanded 

'why have you not renewed your NIE?'

'didn't know I had to'

'you MUST renew your NIE regularly'

I've never heard of this, has anyone else?

Steve

I moved to Spain in 2006 and got my NIE identification card. In 2011 when this expired, they no longer gave foreigners cards, instead they gave us a green piece of paper with our details on. It's my understanding that as this isn't a form of photo I.D. it doesn't need renewing. It is valid as long as you are a resident here. Although the current government seem to change the goalposts on a regular basis, I don't think this green piece of paper should ever need renewing.

Take a look here might help :--  http://www.niein1day.co.uk/why-does-my-nie-certificate-say-it-is-only-valid-for-three-months/

I believe the police now require one to either register on the EU Citizens Register or register as 'non resident' within the three of obtaining an NIE cert. and I believe there is potentially a very large fine for not doing so.  (I made a post about this some while ago. I will try to find it)

Incidentally just to be pedantic.  You cannot say NIE 'number'.  The 'N' stands for numero.  But I know we all do it like  'PIN number'    i.e.  'Personal Identification Number number'  !!

Have a good one.

I found this on a website:

There have been some changes to the NIE Number certificate in the last year, which coincide with the changes to Spanish Residency regulations. 

Your NIE certificate now says that your certificate is only valid for three months. 

The reason your NIE certificate states it will expire after three months is that the Spanish Government is now trying to encourage everyone to apply for their Residency after the initial three month period of living here.  

Your NIE number you have been allocated (which will  begin with an X  or, for newer numbers, a Y) stays with you for life and does not expire.

New Residency registration is quite a complicated procedure (well it is Spain)!

You need to show that you can support yourself financially as well as any dependents and if applicable, also have medical insurance.

Each application is looked at on an individual basis and as usual the requirements seem to vary depending at which National Police Station Extranjeria you make your application.

If you decide to apply for your Residency, you will need to be sure you are going to stay here long term as it is also a requirement that should you leave Spain to live elsewhere that you de-register your residency.

If you are not planning on living in Spain and only have a property here for holidays you can register your NIE as a non-resident so you can continue to use your NIE certificate without worries and do not need to apply for your Spanish Residency.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your post Johnzx & Woodbug - this was a surprise but I imagine I'm not alone.

I'm planning to live in Spain for longer periods, but I will not be exceeding the 183 day rule to retain non-resident status.  So it seems I need to renew my NIE - are you able to give any pointers on the procedure, or is it best to visit a local gestor?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

No. you don't need to renew your NIE certificate. You need to change it for a non-resident certificate which you need to update every 2 years. This replaces the NIE certificate and shows your NIE number. If you do renew the NIE certificate you'll have to update it every time you wish to do something official. (although it expires after 3 months, you don't actually have to renew it unless necessary).

If you do decide to stay permanently, you exchange it for green registration card which doesn't expire. It also shows your NIE number. 

It is only the certificate that goes out of date, not the NIE number which stays with you for life.

I decided to research this issue and called the British Embassy in Madrid because it is not mentioned on their website. I eventually got connected to the British Consulate having endured endless speeches and button pushing choices. I have had experience of these useless b*****s  before, so it came as no surprise that they didn’t know anything about this 3 month forced residency law and advised me to go the a police station and ask there!

These overpaid privileged layabouts are very keen to tell you what they CAN’T do for you, but for the British Consulate in Spain not to know about Spanish rules affecting their own is incredible but believable. I attended a consular meeting 3 years ago and the audience knew more than the staff and it ended with most people walking out in disgust having realized that ripping holidaymakers off for temporary passports is about the extent of their help service.

Those employed in this government service are infinitely lower than dole scroungers!

Point is though marie - why should it become the responsibility of ex-pats to trawl through foreign websites and rely on forums to identify and understand new laws concerning their status? The fact that the British embassy don't know and don't appear to care, speaks volumes for their arrogant presence here.

If this happened in UK there would be dedicated government  television advertising and leaflets in every retail and commercial outlet ever built in UK in many different languages to inform the expats living there. Why is it Brits are always 2nd class citizens when they leave UK? Why can Spanish residents in UK take advantage of all the welfare available and we are ruled with an inflexible rod of iron by Spain?

Spain is adept at moving the goal-posts to suit themselves - but please give us a clue in future.

It's just another EU non-rule!

Point is though marie - why should it become the responsibility of ex-pats to trawl through foreign websites and rely on forums to identify and understand new laws concerning their status? The fact that the British embassy don't know and don't appear to care, speaks volumes for their arrogant presence here.

If this happened in UK there would be dedicated government  television advertising and leaflets in every retail and commercial outlet ever built in UK in many different languages to inform the expats living there. Why is it Brits are always 2nd class citizens when they leave UK? Why can Spanish residents in UK take advantage of all the welfare available and we are ruled with an inflexible rod of iron by Spain?

Spain is adept at moving the goal-posts to suit themselves - but please give us a clue in future.

It's just another EU non-rule!

This is going off topic, but I have to say that I agree with Woodbug's comment.  I've only contacted the embassy in Madrid once and it was a complete waste of time.

The stuff they put out in the local press is patronising in the extreme as if it was written by a 6 year old.  These guys are clearly on a jolly and not vaguely tuned into to providing the assistance required.

Woodbug.  Whilst I understand what you say and why, but in the UK the government do not widely publish changes in the law, especially regarding foreigners visiting / living in UK, one needs to find out about laws and changes,  themselves.

(My wife is Filipino, so I have first hand knowledge)

That said, I know that when I was a police officer I had to keep myself up to date with new legislation.  Ignorance of the law has never been a  defence !  

That said, I have found that the British Consulates in many countries where I have had reason to contact them are ‘less than helpful’.   Last year I took up my rights to Irish nationality. I could not believe the different reception I got from them compared with the British consulates. I will not be renewing my British passport in August when it expires.

PS   Why can Spanish residents in UK take advantage of all the welfare available and we are ruled with an inflexible rod of iron by Spain

Because the systems work in different ways,   just like many other things are differemt from one country to another. We cannot expect the whole world to do it the way we are used to,  or maybe prefer !

Johnzx Your comment:  ‘the UK the government do not widely publish changes in the law, especially regarding foreigners visiting / living in UK’,

What? Are you kidding me? I don’t know which plod you were with but it certainly wasn’t in a working class area. ANYTHING affecting foreigners in UK is printed in many languages, advice centres and welfare services also provide interpretation support. As a police officer you will have encountered the ‘Non est factum’ plea which is an accepted plea of ignorance in law – often used to wriggle out of various situations.

Your comment: ‘Because the systems work in different ways,  just like many other things are different from one country to another. We cannot expect the whole world to do it the way we are used to, or maybe prefer’ !

So the fact that all members states of the EU who put agreements in place means that they can all do as they please anyway? We do not want preferential treatment, we just want to be told of the changes and receive equal support that any other EU member country would provide.

As only a ‘plod’  I will not argue as you obviously have superior knowledge, I only did 30 years as a detective in the Met, supervising officers and training officers for many of those years.  And I only have 8 years first-hand knowledge of how the immigration laws affect foreigners wishing to enter the UK.

Seems ignorance is bliss.

Just to clarify please. We have NIE's from 2006 but have never been resident, just a regular holidaymaker. We own a small apartment. We have never heard of renewing our NIE and are sure that a lot of our neighbours haven't either. Are you all saying that we should exchange them for a non-resident certificate? Quite honestly, how is one to know this as we have never seen it in the English press. Could this be the same thing that is done by our bank every couple of years?

Nobody seems to know Xetog - that is the point I have been trying to get across. The British Consulate don't know and they advise that you go to a police station and ask. The only information we have has been taken from commercial websites or non-government advice pages. The simple question is, where is this information available in English directly from a government office? Its no good anyone telling you what they think - when there is no authentic information to hand.

Xetog   Quite honestly, how is one to know this as we have never seen it in the English press.I have worked with the National ,Police for about 15 years, even I only get to know about changes by chance.

In your case I would not do anything. If you need to produce your NIE cert, if it is not accepted, that is the time to get another copy.

Most banks ( it is I believe obligatory but we are in Spain so there are variations) require a non residents cert every two years.   If your bank obtains it for you, then again that's fine.

Your quote:  As only a ‘plod’  I will not argue as you obviously have superior knowledge

John – with the greatest respect to you, providing  access to and the understanding of new  Spanish legislation, by the minorities that it applies to,  is not connected to  your police service in UK.

The point I am trying to make is that all details of ANY new legislation concerning occupation in UK is made readily available throughout the land in several different languages and many groups as well as individuals are engaged to inform ‘hard breakthrough groups’ and non-literate residents  by addressing social networks. Government, voluntary and faith based organisations also serve as information points for those in need of help or information.

None of these services or systems are available in Spain – it’s just assumed that all foreigners are fluent Spanish speaking and read the Spanish law reports on a daily basis.

John – ,..... providing  access to and ....  understanding of new  Spanish legislation, by the minorities that it applies to,  is not connected to  your police service in UK.

Correct, but in the past 15 years that I have been working with the National Police in Spain, much of what I have been called upon to assist with has entailed interpreting Spanish immigration laws for non Spaniards and assisting them with their legal requirements and obligations.

On the question of assistance provided in UK I can comment, and with my Spanish police experience I can compare the two countries,.

As I said, my wife is Filipino and thus I have had much first hand knowledge of trying to take her with me to UK and even Gibraltar.  I have also tried to assist others in similar situations and have been a subscriber to several forums for the past 8 years, much of which is devoted to resolve anomalies about UK immigration law, in much the same way as Eyeonspain seeks to do with regard to Spain.   I can assure you there is no source of easy to understand information, about much of UK legislation, and even on UK Government  sites the info is often contradictory.   As I said, in general, when new legislation is introduced in UK it not unusual that no general publicity is given.   And as most UK laws are refined and defined by cases going to the high court and to the House of Lords,  it may be some years after legalisation is introduced that its impact is understood.