Ashya King

Hi 

There is a family currently  in Spain who need the support of people residing in Spain, and I hope people will not object to me using this forum to spread the word.

A young child (5) named Ashya King, who is British born was recently treated in hospital in the UK for a brain tumor, his parents were unable to obtain the treatment they wanted for him post surgery, so removed him from the hospital when they felt the could manage his care themselves, this was against the hospital recommendations, but there is a you tube video which explains the situation, unfortunately I do not have approval to post the link but if you type in the name Ashya King in to your search engine you should find items with links to new items and of course You Tube. If you have a facebook account and again type in the name in the search box you will see several pages have been created so you can access them too.

The hospital then used the local UK police to trace the parents and try to get Ashya returned to the hospital by telling them the child was "in grave danger".  A european arrest warrant was issued on that basis and last night the parents were arrested in a the Malaga area (they have a second home in Malaga) Ashya was taken to the hospital in Malaga, but the parents are in custody, it appears extradition orders are being put in place to get the family returned to the UK.

Ashya, incidentally, whilst initially being put in a high dependancy unit of the hospital, after less than 24 hours has now been moved to a low dependancy unit.

What I am asking is that we use this forum to ensure that any information which is used by the media is passed on fully and correctly, since I really do believe that this family should have the right to make a choice about all treatment their child receives.  The King family is a large loving family and there are several other children currently in Spain, luckily there are adult children who are able to ensure the younger siblings will be looked after whilst the legal process holds their parents in custody.

We know how much the Spanish love and protect their children and feel the right support would enable Ashya to get the best possible outcome to what has become somewhat of a 'Circus' here in the UK, so I ask again please spead this information in a true and honest fashion wherever possible.

Many Thanks

So, what about the fact that the Southampton hospital has told the parents that this treatment wouldn't help their child?

The NHS does send children to America for this treatment if appropriate, and would surely have sent Ashya .

The father decided, from looking on the internet, that the treatment. Would help his son, rather than listen to he experts.

it's not a case of the hospital refusing the treatment.

Maybe another reason the parents took the boy out of hospital here is the fact they are both Jehovah Witness's, they can get a little crazy when it comes to stuff like operations etc.

The father said the boy wasn't getting the right treatment, and had researched it online.

the hospital had already told the father that that this type of treatment would not help Ashya.

if the hospital had been informed that the parents wished to take the boy out of hospital and seek the treatment themselves, none of this circus would have happened.

I was hoping by posting to avoid all the "mis-information" being re-itererated in Spain, unfortunately it appears this is not going to be the case.

1. Yes the family are Jehovah's witnesses - but the problem here is not the operation. That has gone ahead. It is the invasive and damaging radiation treatment into the brain of a young boy that the parents were concerned about.

2. The fact is that there is alternative treatment available, albeit not yet available in the UK, this was the catalyst that made the parents take the action they did. As they were happy to sell their home to obtain finances to pay for this treatment, I think the choice should have been theirs.

So the point being when does it become the medical professions choice to proceed with medical treatment without the full consent of the parents of a child and at what point do parents lose those rights?  By threatenting to make the child a ward of the courts if the parents refused to accept the final decision of the medical team did the doctors make the situation any better?

As a parent (luckily with two healthy happy children fully grown into adulthood) what would I have done had I been in their position, hopefully I would have had a medical team who would have listened, understood, and at least given me the opportunity to explore all the options, so I would not have been in such a dreadful predicament.

Unfortunately in Britain today, most services are experiencing severe financial cutbacks, they have to justify each and every action and whilst the Doctors may have felt their course of  treatment was the best they could do, their decision has been made clinically,what they have done is failed to take into account a parents love for their child and have instead made a very emotional and hard time extremely stressful, responding to letters, explaining fully their reasoning, maybe requesting the use of a PALS liaison to advise the parents etc, would perhaps have been a more humane way to deal with the situation.

As I live in the UK, but live in Wales and work a short distance across the border in England, I find it incongrous that I or anyone living in our local area, can no longer be referred to the English hospital for treatment even though the waiting list times are usually halved - why the simple answer is MONEY.

So whilst I know that the alternative treatment is available, each case has to be put before a board to be determined and not every patient would be treated on the NHS, but if the treatment were to be paid for privately surely that option should be given consideration, rather than bullying people into submission to accept a decision which could leave their son radically disabled for life.

As usual the needs of the child and the parents were plAced second to the budgetary controls in the Uk. If a viable treatment method is avaliable and proven to be better than the cheaper treatment then the needs of the citizen must outweigh the cost .

i think it's a bloody disgrace to the UK how these parents who clearly love their child enough to take this action have been  demonised by the police and the press . Since when do the police have any knowledge of this child's condition? They and I mean the U.K authorities have acted in haste . 

One thing is clear if as a country we are so poor we cannot offer the best healthcare to our sick we have disgraced ourselves and those who fought for the health service .

This is a sad case and I hope the little lad does get better. However, surely the warnings about the battery, the care he was receiving and so on should have warned the parents? If they had informed the hospital what they intended to do I'm sure nobody could have stopped them rather than putting his life in yet more danger.

One point in your post yvonne2618 is As I live in the UK, but live in Wales and work a short distance across the border in England, I find it incongrous that I or anyone living in our local area, can no longer be referred to the English hospital for treatment even though the waiting list times are usually halved - why the simple answer is MONEY.

No, the reason is that Wales voted to devolve healthcare as purely a Welsh matter and be allocated the money to do with as they want. That providing free prescriptions for all has taken priority over medical matters is now a matter for them. However, saying you can't be referred to an "English" hospital is wrong. You can be referred to any EU hospital if the waiting times for the procedure exceed the recommended length. Again, Wales and not England have decided on the recommended length of time.

In this modern devolved state, a patient being sent to another Health Authority will have the bill sent to the originating Health Authority.

Anyway, well off the subject there. I would hope the medical staff in this case have the boy's health as their primary concern. A 10 year old called Ethan Fidler from England is undergoing specialised radiation treatment for a brain tumour in Florida, the bill of £50,000 being paid for by the NHS plus his flights there. In this case, the medical staff at the hospital in Florida said that he would benefit from this treatment so it was justified.

It has already been explained that the proton treatment would not help Ashya.

the NHS do send children abroad for treatment if justified

The hospital had offered the parents a second opinion and access to treatment abroad, so what more could they do?

By taking the child without informing the hospital, the parents put the boy at risk by taking him on a long journey through Europe, during which time his condition could have deteriorated. Thankfully it didn't.

The Police took the right action, and should not be criticised.

while understanding the parent's desperation, it was a risky and ill thought out action which is turning into a nightmare.

Although I do agree that issuing a European Arrest Warrant, incarcerating the parents in Spain and treating them like criminals is a little OTT. Yes, the police probably had a duty to return the child to medical care but there are better ways to do things. Unless the press reports are also a bit OTT.

It's always easy to get emotional about these things until the true facts are known.

Well - I have been drawn in again after saying I would not be.   But I find this situation disgusting.  The parents have been criminalised and serarated from their son who is lying (in a regular ward - pretty much like his hotel room), without the support of his family.  Putting the boy first?  I don't think so.    And I think you are naive if you believe the NHS when they say it is not worth trying the new type of treatment.   The reality is that they have a 'list' of treatments that they will fund, and a 'list' of treatments they will not fund.   It is all about money and not the individual.   There are cases of parents who have had children with the SAME condition treated successfully in the US.    In addition Camposol, the story I saw said that the family were told that the hospital would apply for a court order if they refused treatment.   The religion of the couple seems to me to be a deliberate diversion to make the actions of the couple more questionable, and seems to have played no part in any of this - apart from presumably giving the parents the strength to continue.   I think the nightmare began when the little boy was diagnosed, and intensified through the frustration of the NHS insisting on pursuing a course of action that the parents did not want.   Trust the experts at these hopspitals?  I would rather poke my eyes out with sticks.   I would like to see a full list of exactly what treatments residents of the UK are being denied because their problem is not on a 'list'.    I always thought the Americans were harsh to talk about the NHS death lists - but that is what it looks like in this case.    

I am utterly disgusted at the behaviour of the UK authorities and Southampton hospital . There is a small boy laying alone in a hospital whilst his parents sit in a jail cell. If any human on this forum finds this acceptable then I abandon hope of my race .

have we forgotten basic humanity , have we abandoned principles ..... Whatever perceived crime these people are alleged to have commited pale into insignificance in the light of the child's needs , he needs his parents with him now not in 72 hours . Does he have 72 hours ?

Spain has an opportunity to free the parents to be with their child the analysis of the rights or wrongs can wait .

In case anyone is interested there is an online petition which is to be presented to David Cameron on Tuesday (2/9/14) asking that the Ashya and his parents are re-united. 

To access type petition for Ashya King into the search engine, the site is change.org, there are various petitions but this is simply asking David Cameron to ask that the parents and Ashya can be re-united.

I would insert the link but I don't have authorisation, to ensure you have the right one you will see it has over 74,000 signatures as of this moment and growing.

This message was last edited by yvonne2618 on 01/09/2014.
This message was last edited by yvonne2618 on 02/09/2014.

Already signed Yvonne, thanks for the info.   The only spark of comfort is that both the police and the NHS will pay big time for this travesty of justice.  

AND, I wonder how many proton centres we could have had in the UK if it had not been for the BILLIONS wasted by the NHS on their useless and not fit for purpose IT system?

Have to say I agree with Camposol. None of us know the background to the story.

There is an interesting article from a Doctor in today's Telegraph re. The treatments. I am not allowed to post links because I am new!

There are a lot of really interesting articles, to back up any arguments, including the one in The Guardian on line yesterday which raised concerns about UK police effectively acting on the behest of another large organisation (the NHS, instead of working for its citizens).   One thing I am absolutely certain of though, is that doctors in the NHS, dedicated as they might be, are NOT in the main at the cutting edge of treatments.    Through years of litigation against the NHS, I have seen how they stick with out of date techniques (which incidently don't even save money - but simply knock the spending onto aftercare rather than surgical).  I have seen cases where surgeons make incomprehensible decisions, without any accountability.     I would say that he is probably NOT better off in the UK, and am taken aback by the arrogance of medics who continue to pretend the NHS is the best health service in the world.  Before I get jumped on, I think the NHS is PROBABLY the best FREE health care in the world at the moment, but what good is a free NHS if it cannot provide up to date treatment for its people?   

Here is the link and well worth reading 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/11068128/Ashya-King-should-be-treated-in-Britain.html

And here is one of many giving the other side:    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/02/ashya-king-clegg-criticises-full-force-law

And another one worth a read for those interested, from a cancer charity:   http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/01/ashya-king-brain-cancer-parents_n_5748588.html

I don't agree with those who say we don't know the whole story.  There is enough known to make everyone very, very angry about how this family have been treated.  We await the quickly assembled family law division ruling this afternoon.  If not for the publicity this case has received, I would not be optimistic, given that the family law division in the Uk is one of the most secretive sections of law we have in the west.   

No you don't know the whole, full, truthfull story, no one does except the parents,  biggest thing that has got up people nose's is the fact that although the parents took the child out of a UK hospital for best reasons known only to them is the way the stupid Spanish judge has handled the case, maybe this is the Spanish way and laws I don't know, but in this case it's big time crap, and to separate the child from the parents while this child might only have days to live is nothing short of cruelty and total stupidity.

If a so called learned judge cant see this then they have no brains to judge any case's. Car speeding included.

According to the news the child is under armed police guard in hospital, for what? Another kidnapping by the locked up parents who are miles away, not forgetting the parents took the child to Spain for what seems to get better treatment in the first place.

Better plan would have been to keep the parents in the hospital under an armed police guard in the first place, be cheaper for one thing, and even if this poor child cant speak he might be able to know the faces of his parents.

I am just wondering what would have been the public response if, when  the family took the child away from the hospital, without telling anyone where they were going or why,   the police and other authorities had done nothing,  and instead of the child being found in Spain, he had died.