The Truth about property and permisions when Buying/selling

Hello all, I am Bill and ran an estate agency in Spain ,billinspain and had to leave when we caught a local stealing from the Business , that is another story, but I would like to point out that many of the problems created in the past over Buying in Spain are still acceptable currency and it is about time the practice of miss selling and straight forward lying should be stopped, I recently recieved a property for sale from another agent of a ruin on land stating it would make a nice house once restored, this in most cases is untrue, these are worthless sheds on the equivalent of allotments to stay over night and not for Habitation, Building in Spain is under strict controls and Laws, until this practice stops the problems in Spain will never end, why is it acceptable to miss-sell to trusting people and leave them with many years of misery as it unfolds that the home they have built illegaly must be removed, why is this practice still going on in Spain, why are people still taking advantage of the very slow Authorities and creating this missery and ruin of good people and investors.

Hi Bill,

It is good to know that not all estate agents in Spain are rogues, even if it's just most of them.

From what I've seen the problem is that there seems to be an absence of serious prosecutions for fraud in Spain.   It seems to be treated as a joke by the authorities. 

A case I came across recently involved planning permission given by a mayor on agricultural land.  After their house was subsequently bulldozed the unlucky Brits involved were awarded damages against the mayor and another Spanish national, but these two then declared themselves bankrupt and therefore paid back nothing.  The two Spaniards were given a 6 month jail sentence, but this was suspended - so they ended up with absolutely no penalty whatsoever.

You've gotta think that the legal system is Spain is as corrupt as many of the estate agents.

These are the sort of instances that need to be consistently reported back to European MEP's and request that they be formally logged into an effective monitoring system so that pressure can be brought to bear on the continuing failures to adequately safeguard purchasers rights in Spain. (ask for details of how these instances are currently being monitored by the European authorities).

How many, for instance, are equally compromised by major court delays/contra legem rulings/lack of time constraints to ensure the rule of law is safeguarded/failures to adequately regulate notaries/lawyers/Banks/Estate agents/land registry controls? (In the case of Banks.....I wonder how many innocent purchasers are stuck in a justice system where Banks systematically appeal in denial of recognition of purchasers' INALIENABLE rights as defined in current law (LEY 57/68)? I wonder how many have been fighting for justice (since preliminary hearing stage) longer than 5 years? )

Who within the European Parliament and Commission is responsible for adequately recording and monitoring such failures to regulate, failures that continue to inflict such injustices on innocent purchasers in Spain?

Why are Spanish Law Firms not taking a co-ordinated and standardised approach to tackling this problem by identifying the scale of these problems to their bar associations, and if this is proving ineffective, reporting their findings to the European Commissioner responsible for Justice?

It is still an issue...and still a big one.

The courts can't even cope with the number of old cases stil to be processed and often the outcomes of these cases don't make any sense.

When there is corruption at the top level, such as the recent news about corruption in the government and the royal family, then it's going to take a long time before this part of Spanish culture starts to fade.

We caught a lad in the office ,running his own Bussiness through our shop and contacts including trying to illegaly sell property we owned and stealing deposits, he made a full statement admitting the crimes, we did not turn up as there was no official case, he was let off and we had a fine of 78.000 euros and property taken and evicted, it goes on and on and we have all the paperwork to prove our story, we came back to the UK , it was all reported to the E.U and ombudsman. That was 6 years ago. one of my investors was planning to spend 10 Billion in 5 years in Spain. It is no longer a safe country for any seriouse investors.

I have made sure that all of my contacts know the full story and not to invest in Spain, I believe that the UK should stop funding into the EU untill  Spain is sorted or leaves the EU and all trade should be stopped with Spain, Spain has no intension of rectifying the problems and the fact that Dirt with a shed on is still for sale as homes to renovate proves the point only to well.

Spain and its people are wonderfull and the life it has to offer is amazing, it is a shame that good will and Honesty do not exist at any leval of Authority through out the entire country. The whole of the world would love to retire there and the power of that should creat a fool proof econamy.

I cant help thinking that if any investor has 10 Billion (Presume Euro's) to invest with you in Spain 6 years ago, this investor, who obviously has the know how to accumulate a vast amount of money would most certainly know of any pitfalls about the country without having to ask any third party. 

Hello, regarding the 10 billion investor, He was intercepted away from our office by the employee, without our knowledge, and we were ensuring he met no pitfalls, from the cost of the Land 80 hectares with permissions outlined for 2 Golf courses 2 x5 star Hotels, and 400 homes , the permissions and plans were to be dealt with and finalised, a Water pumping station erected ,roads in by the present owner,before the deal was completed to the client , however the young Boy local thief did not know our involvment and the neccacery works to complete and rushed the client off to the Notary with the clients full trust ( as he was introduced as our worker) as the client thought that it was through us, 14,000,000 euros later and not a single part of the above was ever put in place solidly so the client now owns 80 hectares of dust, and is 14,000,000 euros lighter, The deal was meant to be carfully controlled from every aspect, The only compensation for us is that the client understands that his person sent over that did the deal never at any time met us or spoke to us and that excuses were made, so we remain clear of the project, When we found that the Boy was stealing and reported it, he made a full confession to the court, stealing funds, deposits ,clients, Keys, trying to sell property we owned with his parents, he was let off as we did not turn up to court, mainly because we were not told about any case, the court then took 78,000 euros off of us (later to be returned by the CINDIC) At a cost of 120,000 euros and then gave our propertys to his parents, including 1 we had sold, the sale reversed?

The Client owns Banks.

Spain will suffer as if you stich someone up who owns Banks, others in the Business get to know about it. The fact that Spain refuse to deal with these things and now you have dry Fincas being sold again to victims shows no intention to correct anything, that is the reality.

All of this is clearly documented and to speak of it under Spains new Gagging Laws could encure a 30,000 euro fine.

A wonderfull country.

Hi BHTHE.

Your story really intrigues me and i cant help thinking why would you let any employee, you say "Boy" as well, have any large amount of contact with any client over a 10 Billion deal with the client who is then on the short end of 14 Million lost, i own three business's now, down from five, and to be honest to let anyone other then yourself delegate, and keep on top of such a large amount of money, and large project is...Well, quite staggering, and your client owns banks, so they would be the first one's to smell a rat surely.

I wont even let any of my workers spend a penny without running it past me first...And I don't come anywhere near the amounts you talk about, if I lived three times..No five times, it still would not come near your amounts.

This "Boy' stole just about everything except the paint of your walls and you didn't miss anything?

Hardly carefully controlled is this... as you say.

You didn't turn up in court because you didn't know of any court case? How come?

The client wishes to spend 10 Billion€'s yet never gets to meet you, the owner?

You cant speak of this under Spains new gagging laws yet have told all your contacts the full story..How does that work then?

What are these "new gagging laws" you refer to... do you have any further details?

Look you were a sleep at the wheel you only have yourself to blame and coming on this site moaning about it is pathetic any good businessman would pick himself up dust himself off and carry on you wont get any sympathy from me and I guess not from any of the other members

Love Hugh

Its a bullshit story anyway 

I am with hughjardon on this - all sounds a bit far fetched for me and the figures talked about would surely spark a huge interest from the press all across Europe and if a court case existed this again would be big news come on 10bn€ and a "boy"

announcing the amount of detail on a forum like EOS, this is also a bit add and enough information provided to possibly be a breach of any gagging order.

a 10bn€ scam / rip off going unreported - give me a break

at best this sounds like sour grapes with a big imagination

Under this rule, of keeping my cool I will ignore the insults about sour grapes ect, and yes I have re-started my life and the problem is being sorted out through the E.U,

The origional post said the investor was going to spend 10 Billion, the deal he was taken on was for 14 million,

Yes the investor did meet me and he then sent who ever to the office where the second guy met the 26 year old Boy who took him away,

How do you think that Spain will be prepared to sort out crime with the comments from people on here, the problem is partly people like yourselves have the same mind, dismiss the truth and make up a truth to suit the size of your own mind, one you can cope with and accept.

No sour grapes,I have re-set up, and the problem is being dealt with, investers I know staying well away from Spain.

The comment was to point out that Spain is very much in the red and has no way out apart from dealing with its problems,

It matters not about the negative comments to the post, even insults it is a fact Spain has hanging around its neck.

Keep your abuse to yourselves, as it is way past and over your heads, being dealt with correctly but slowly,Thank you.

The Document below is the full admission of guilt ,this document was hidden by the court and it was retreived by going through every file untill we found it, this was the first notice that we caught him on, He worked with another estate agent to pass our e mails and clients through, this all happend very quickly as most of the work was already in its final stages,

Along with this statement the local Judge demanded 78,000 eruos from us in 24 hours, this was taken wrongly and incorectly and was dealt with through C.I.N.D.I.C

The thread is just to show people the level of corruption in Spain and that it is not a wise place to invest, It was not put up for sympathy ,disbelief or other nasty comments just to point out what can happen in Spain.

We will get commpensated but it will take many years.

Thanks again.

http://rt.com/news/216299-spain-anti-protest-law/

It seems that some of the comments on here are from people that live in total denial of all sorts of things, if you speak out in Spain it holds a 30,000euro fine.

Basicly if you have a case where you build on land that is in despute , you will get a 30,000 fine and sent home.

Wake up to the land you are living in, you have to suport change and remove coruption, the comments below show  some of you clearly support what has happened to us and blame us.

If you read the document below, the Keys, and deeds were actualy properties we owned and we put this to the Police as soon as we found foul actions, the full extent came after.

Answering e mails to clients was a part of the work in the office, these were being forwarded and delited so we did not sleep into this problem, we found it quickly and the problem was how the Judge Police and courts processed the complaint, the Tarragona / Falset court. This Boy was completely guilty by his own statement of theft on every acount while under a full employment contract, this comes under criminal Law in Europe.

I hope this answers some of the doupters below.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/20/spain-protests-security-law-parliament

There is a part of this Law that imposes a 30,000 euro fine for resisting eviction.

ads

Impossible to read through all this new legalisation but some of the basic's I would have thought are for the good as opposed to the bad, take throwing out illegal immigrants who enter the country illegally, and it mentions Africa specifically, considering how many might turn up if you ignored this, with the emphasis on Ebola Virus would have thought not to bad a law. Come to the UK we don't do this, we might in some years to come wish we had though.

Another piece was insulting a police officer carries a fine, we here in the UK also have that one, as I would think does many countries, but hardly used to the full extent, perhaps in a way that might stop some crime if it was fully carried out. Cops here in the UK hardly enforce it, and to listen to some of the scum insulting the law like they do, we should jail them.

Burning the Countries National Flag, why shouldn't this be against the law of the country?  We in the UK get this done to our Flag, mostly by the immigrant section who come here for a better life, but don't like us having this better life, because it don't conform to what they want.

Many other bits I read about, yes some seemed extreme, seems it's mentioned the gagging law was done to cover up Spains financial crisis, come to the UK and really see how our "Government Experts" can cover up our still ongoing financial crisis. Don't read the newspapers as to how good we are doing, live the life here.

Every country has many of these laws that Spain is introducing, all just dressed up and worded differently to suit each.

By your own admission you warned all of your clients about the problems you had with the courts, and the lousy way they worked, plus insulted the Spanish Legal System, have you now been gagged or fined?  

You ran a company with clients willing to spend Billions yet didn't see what was happening to your own company.

Mr Dyson also ran a company here in the UK worth Billions, then left due to UK Government incompetence.

The main problem is ,no one is prepared to put things right, untill you become the victim and many of you will, you divert all blame on the victim.

This is with just about every issue, Jimmy Savil and others, it matters not what you want to call me, the corruption is well known and main investers will not return while my case and others 110,000 aprox are not dealt with, I put this post on as I got an e mail offering a finca to be reformed to a house by a suposed estate agent,

Land in Spain has the same regulation and Laws for Building as the UK, in writing and with an Architect any thing else is a rip off, most Fincas will never get a Cedula de Habitabilidad , and to tell unsuspecting people other wise is corruption.

The problem goes on,

Good luck all

Well I have said my piece on why Spain is in so much trouble, it was nice to meet big men like Hughjardon full of big talk and insults ,that make no difference to the facts.

Do not take me for a push over Hugh and who ever you are speak to people with a better manner, I at no point asked any one for sympathy so keep your abuse to yourself and Friend circle in the future.

I will resolve my problem, I have the facts,

Spain has had it, no more hand outs from the E.U and no interest from big investers.

This year the 2 year social hand outs will come to an end for many who are unemployed, as there are 2 generations in many famillies out of work the normal help each other is not available, they must eat, so they must steal or starve.

My Friends the problems of Spain have only just begun.

It has been through the support of criminality and corruption, nothing more.

I am off now, thanks for the thread.