Foreign Asset Declaration Model 720:

The same person told me,  that was the reason the 720 Declaration was introduced.

How does that work then? the 720 came into force about 2012, the Panama thing happened in 2016.

Baz:  How does that work then? the 720 came into force about 2012, the Panama thing happened in 2016.

(Yes the first declaration was in 2013 for 2012)

 As I understand and it:  If as a resident one had undeclared funds over 50,000 € outside Spain during 2015 and did not declare them by 31st March 2016, then that amounts to failure to declare.

 Or am I wrong Baz?

That is right John. We can hope the Gov will focus this tool on high-profile people like those of Panama, but it's far from certain...

Baz:  How does that work then? the 720 came into force about 2012, the Panama thing happened in 2016.

(Yes the first declaration was in 2013 for 2012)

 As I understand and it:  If as a resident one had undeclared funds over 50,000 € outside Spain during 2015 and did not declare them by 31st March 2016, then that amounts to failure to declare.

 Or am I wrong Baz?

I didn't ask that, I wanted to know if the 720 came into force in 2012, and Panama first came about in 2016 why did the writer say that Panama is why the 720 was introduced.....Panama wasn't even heard about 4 years earlier back in 2012.

I read that the EU are challenging the legality of the modelo 720 and threatening action against Spain

is this still going on?

BAZ  The same person told me,  that was the reason the 720 Declaration was introduced.

Sorry to have confused you.

 I was told, the Declaration law was introduce to 'convict' those  who had 'illegal and unaccountable funds' in banks and institutions beyond the reach of AEAT, and who could not be called to account under existing legislation

Thus Snr.  xxxxx  who has had modest declared earnings throughout his lifetime is found to have x millions in another jurisdiction, can be fined in Spain 150% of those millions

I have been told by a well know writer on the law in Spain, that the Gov will use the  720 legislation against those with assets in Panama who failed make the declaration.  With the max penalty 150'% of the assets not declared that would seem to be a very easy way of dealing with them. 

The same person told me, *** that was the reason the 720 Declaration was introduced ***.

Thats just it, you haven't confused me, not one bit,  you seem to believe what you were told that the 720 was introduced to cover assets that were not declared in Panama, it wasn't, and never was, it was introduced to cover assets that were not being declared to the Spanish tax man. Totally different to saying it was the reason it was introduced because of Panama.

Yes, they will use the 720 to check any undeclared assets in Panama from now on but they couldn't have done back in 2012 when it was introduced....No confusion on my part. 

** EDITED **

** EDITED **

There's no problem at all, things are pretty clear to me. The only thing I am not sure of is how the Spanish state focuses on those who haven't declared. In some place I read the search was random. I don't know at all, I'll ask a counselor. I imagine he'll tell me that, being late but on my first year and having so little to declare and nothing hidden, I'd better declare now. Yet I would find it completely unfair to be fined... With this penalty and some other charges I have to pay this year, only very little would remain me to live on a daily basis...

May I ask in what situation you are concerning this form? Not applicable, not declared, declared...

Thanks!

** EDITED**

Claudius:-  May I ask in what situation you are concning this form?     Not applicable, not declared, declared...

Both my wife and I have declared from the start, although this year we did not,  as there was no need to up-date the info.

Hi,

just some news about my case... A counsellor told me I could try to prove that I wad French resident in 2015, since I lived almost half of the year there, that I have the most income there (salaries and then renting the flat), and that, of course, I own the flat there. Just for 2015 of course. Do you think it is relevant?

I also thought about another solution: maybe I could declare in time in 2017? Then I may not have to pay the penalty, but maybe just justify my income for 2015. What do you think? Or may it make my case worse?

Cheers

If you were resident in France in 2015 then you shouldn't declare or pay anything to the Spanish tax authorities, you don't have to.

Wait until next year when you will need to do your declaration de la renta and your Modelo 720.

Yes, that is exactly the reason why they talked about this. But do you think it can sensibly apply, given that I stopped working there and starting working here? Can I prove that I worked there half the year and then spent some more time in my flat? Or by the amount of my income and rents in France, a little higher than my income in Spain?

Mark Stucklin sums up the absurdity of the whole 720 debacle very nicely, in my opinion, in this recent article

I think he hits the nail right on the head: Spanish government policy & taxation is slowly killing the Golden Goose.

Roberto quote from the piece you linked:-   The worldwide asset declaration obligation was introduced to clamp down on corruption and fiscal evasion by locals, but the main victims are EU expats

I understand that only about 5% of those who were obliged to declare did so.  I don't know how many were Spaniards, but if Spain uses the powers under the 720 legislation against the Spanish nationals who are on the Panama Papers list, maybe we will see that it is not Johnny Foreigner who is most affected. 

Just a thought.

I agree, of course it's not just foreigners who have been affected, indeed, considering the number of Spanish nationals compared to foreign nationals making up the residents of Spain, it's logical to conclude that more Spaniards should be affected than foreign residents - although probably very few average Spaniards have any assets overseas. However, I think foreign residents, in particular northern European retirees, have been far more concerned about the 720 than fat cat Spaniards with millions in Panama or Switzerland etc., and this is the point the article is making. By "victims", I don't think Mr.Stucklin necessarily means those who have been prosecuted as a result of not declaring their overseas assets. Rather, he implies that EU expats have been most affected by the legislation in the way that it influences their lifestyle decisions etc. And the figures showing a marked decline in foreign residents (excluding economic migrants, who by definition would not have any assets back home) coinciding with the introduction of the 720 are probably not entirely coincidental.

Hi all,

about this form again, do you know of anyone who declared late (fuera de plazo) and who finally got no penalty?

Also, I asked a counsellor, and he told me this declaration only applied to those who had been living in Spain for at least 12 months, which is still not my case. Have you heard anything similar? I think this rule would make sense, but I can't get any reference to it, or maybe I don't understand enough.

Cheers,

I'm sure Johnzx will put you right on this

after 183 days in Spain you are liable for Spanish income tax , and it can be from day 1 in certain circumstances