Is it cheaper to live in Spain?

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29 Dec 2010 6:26 PM by suemac Star rating in Jumilla, Murcia. 1001 posts Send private message

Today we went out for lunch with our friends Lesley and John, plus Lesley's son Nick and his girlfriend Sue.  We went to a beautiful restaurant in Jumilla, Restaurante Loreto, which is set in a 200 year old house.  We were given free appetisers and then chose from the menú del día: ensalada with smoked salmon and asparagus or Sopa de Mariscos or goats cheese parcels with roasted vegetables; main courses of atún (my choice and delicious!) solomillo de cerdo or paella mariscos; fresh fruit salad, cheesecake, selection of helados or lemon sorbet  with cava; coffee (most of us had black coffee with brandy).  We had two bottle of wine between the six of us, a bottle of water and 2 baskets of bread.  We had a plate of cakes on the house too.  The bill, including a tip, was 20€ each.  An absolute bargain considering the surroundings and the quality of the food!

Sue



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29 Dec 2010 6:54 PM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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Glad you enjoyed your meal with your friends, Sue. I was looking at their website which is also in English & it does look interesting.

We're home BTW!



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29 Dec 2010 7:05 PM by suemac Star rating in Jumilla, Murcia. 1001 posts Send private message

Thanks, More.  As you know, it is possible to have an excellent menú del día in Jumilla for 8€ each (though beware ordering Gazpacho Jumillano!) - but around Christmas it is good to splash out for something special.  Pleased to hear that you are now safely home and without any disasters!  Enjoy your second Christmas!

Sue

PS What is interesting is that people are still wishing us "Feliz Navidad" if they haven't seen us since Christmas.  "Navidad" here seems to last from Christmas until Reyes Magos!



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29 Dec 2010 8:30 PM by advisor Star rating in London most of the t.... 311 posts Send private message

if you can avoid selling up completely in the UK then I would do so even if it means downsizing in the UK as potentially the capital growth achieved over the next 5-10years will in all likelyhood outstrip that gained in Spain or by which you would receive in interest in a bank. Also dependant upon where your property is based in the UK rental income would also be offering a higher return than savings / investments (assuming you would invest in low risk products).

If you are using income/currency/pension being paid in the UK then work out a regualr monthly transfer plan with the likes of Moneycorp thus at least guaranteeing your income for upto 24 months.

Taking into account UK taxes such as rates, vat and income tax I find it hard to believe anyone would be worse off!



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03 Jan 2011 9:54 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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I see electric bills are expected to rise by about 10% this year. My electric costs for 2010 were about 7% more than 2009. Not very happy about that. BUT.....

Went for a lovely stroll in the sun along the beachfront yesterday (La Carihuela for those who know this part of the world) and stopped for refreshments at a chiringuito (beach bar - I mean, right on the beach, i.e tourist rip-off zone!) because their blackboard jumped out at me and assaulted me with their offers: coffee, 80 cents; caña 1 euro, tapa 1 euro.  Pretty happy about that !



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03 Jan 2011 10:39 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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 Had a letter in UK regarding fuel costs.  Dual fuel charges are rising by 11% from February.  





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04 Jan 2011 12:07 PM by TechNoApe Star rating in Duquesa, Manilva. 1277 posts Send private message

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VAT up 2.5% in the UK today!

So that Duel fuel charge increase of 11% will also be affected by the rise in VAT, from 17.5% to 20%.

The cost of Energy is going up globally, due to the now very limited fossil fuel resources, the costs involved in further Oil and Gas explorations, and the investment costs for Renewable Energy sources.

When you think how technologically advanced the human race is,  why are we still so dependent on fossil fuels?

Renewable Energy is the only way forward, as one day Gas, Oil and Coal reserves are going to run out... and that day is sooner than most people think!

Going back to topic, I think with the Fuel and VAT increases in the UK then ..... well, you all know my stance!



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03 Apr 2011 10:44 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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For any doubters who still like to pretend Spain is more expensive than the UK, Donna's latest blog post makes interesting reading: http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/donnagee/5345/need-and-greed-how-airport-parking-charges-compare-in-spain-and-the-uk.aspx

 



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19 Apr 2011 2:35 PM by alfshane Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

Of course Spain is expensive. But by following little things the travelers can reduce their expenses a lot. Some of the tips to reduce expenses are - share accommodation or stay in hostels; buy discount cards for entry to museums or other attractions; do all the bookings for flights, car rental or hotels well in advance whether you are traveling in peak season or not.





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28 May 2011 6:16 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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 Well, not really an old thread but could do with updating.  

For those of you coming to live in Spain, one big point needs clearing up.  That folding paper you get from Tesco or Thomas Cook or wherever is actually money.  That is, real money.  It is no longer the holiday tokens you brought over with you that didn't seem to matter much as it was really just bits of paper that you exchanged for beer, or coffee, or a taxi ride or whatever,  It is now the real stuff and the amount you have depends on what you earn, not what you can afford to chuck away on fripperies.  It now pays for your electricity, your taxes, your household items and, most importantly, the food you put on the table.  Now we have that out of the way, I will continue.

Prices have risen in Spain.  There are no two ways about it.  Inflation in Spain (less food) is running at 3.1%.  Food is a little less at just under 2%.  UK food inflation is now 4.9% and a short trip to UK will show just how much prices are rising.  However, this is about Spain.  To those from the UK, it appears that prices in Spain are rising by the day.  Apart from petrol (which is rising by the day) they aren't.  It's just that the pound, into which we automatically convert that funny money, is collapsing.  Some will remember getting as much as 1 euro and 60 cents for each pound, most will remember at around 1.40 or so.  Nowadays, taking into consideration the commission, tourist rates etc, you are better off just calling it 1 for 1.  Yes, it changes dramatically by the day but looking at it as1 for 1 is realistic, above that you are on a bonus!  So, that cup of coffee which you got for 75 cents and was about 50p is now a euro or (as near as dammit) a quid.  The price in Spain has risen by 12.5% but, for us, it has gone up 50% (all down to exchange rates, you see).  Same with that loaf of bread, the pack of eggs, the ham sandwich etc.  A meal in a Chinese restaurant costing 8 euros (a pretty substantial Chinese meal for that) 3 years ago is still 8 euros. For those living in Spain, the rate of inflation is zero.  For those visiting, the cost has now gone up from £5.70 to almost £8 or around 28%.  It doesn't mean inflation is Spain (for Chinese restaurants) is 28%, it means you're getting 28% less for your pound (ish ish figures, by the way).  A tub of Flora Oliva was, three years ago (which is when I moved into my house, by the way, hence quoting 3 years ago) was €1.45.  Just last week, the same tub (well, not the same tub but a similar one) was also €1.45.  In pounds, it was about a pound but now around £1.40 or a staggering 40% increase.  But it's not.  It hasn't gone up at all.

So, where does all that leave us?  Interestingly, in today's Daily Telegraph, there is a link to the cost of food in 13 different countries for those on self-catering and Spain comes out as the cheapest!  For a basket of food containing 16 items like bread, milk, eggs and other staples, it came to £44.23 with Portugal second at £44,36 and the Costa Blanca at £47.28.  The UK was 10th on the list at £63.63 for the same items.  Now, just imagine if the pound hadn't crashed.  It would still be £63.63 in UK but, if we were to convert it at the 1.40 to the pound, it would only be a litte over £32, or half the price of UK.  

(Interestingly, a separate survey compared prices for those staying in hotels as tourists and compared 13 things like a can of coke in a bar, sun cream, an ice cream etc and came up with £39 in Spain and over £60 in UK.)

However, man does not live by bread alone.  Petrol in Spain, usually well below the price in UK, is rapidly catching up with only about 2 or 3 cents a litre the difference (petrol, not diesel which remains a lot cheaper in Spain due to the tax system).  Electricity prices in Spain are now about 2 cents per kw/h dearer than they are in UK so watch the amount of time the air conditioner is kept on.  Water prices in Spain have risen quite sharply but are still at about half the cost of UK.  Electrical goods like computers and TVs are actually reducing in Spain (as they are in UK) and you can get these cheaper in Spain than UK if you shop around.  Other white goods, like refrigeration and laundry, are still extremely high in Spain and would be even if the pound hadn't gone down so much.  Smaller items (just as an example - albeit a silly one) like a wooden spoon which you can pick up for 2 for 79p in Wilkos will cost almost 2 euros in Spain.  Proper furniture in UK is much cheaper than Spain although you do have IKEA which are similar in prices (if only those beds weren't so low - I can't even get down on one let alone get up again).

Back to the plus side, taxes are lower in Spain.  My MPV in UK has a road tax of £230 in UK but only €87 in Spain.  Smaller cars are even cheaper.  Council taxes in Spain for the year are about one monthly payment in UK but beware of the community charges which vary greatly.  They could push the prices up a lot even though you do get pool maintenance and garden care included in the prices.  

Like most Brits, we tend to opt for the brands of toiletries and things that we know.  However, Spain has lots of alternatives which are much cheaper.   For example, SWMBO tends to get a bit of dry skin in the sun.  She has used L'Oreal (because she's worth it) moisturiser which sells at around £7.50 in UK but a staggering €12 in Spain (remember, that's almost 12 quid!).  Having a tube of 250 ml confiscated at the airport coming out, she had to buy something different and came across Crema Hidrante con Aloe Vera in Mercadona at 2 euros a tube.  She reckons it is far superior and only has to use it once a week instead of daily with the L'Oreal stuff.  Having a mouth ulcer, she went to the chemist for Bonjela (over 5 euros) and was recommended a Spanish brand at 2 euros which, again, proved much better.  Same with shampoo.  Ignore the top (international) brands in the supermarkets and chemists and go for a Spanish alternative.  Probably exactly the same stuff but at less than half the price.  (Unfortunately, I haven't yet found cheaper razor blades and they are about the same extortionate price they are in UK).  The Daily Telegraph article I mentioned above says that a similar survey they did last year showed Spain with the lowest prices in Europe for toiletries and related articles.  I would like to see that one!

What are expensive in Spain are things like paracetamol and cough medicines.  Chemist own brands in UK are in the pennies but in the euros in Spain so try and stock up on those if you use them a lot.  Small electric items such as kettles, coffee makers, toasters and so on are more expensive in Spain but possibly because they only sell the expensive branded ones.  No cheap Argos own brand over here, I'm afraid, unless you visit one of those Brit stalls on the market which only add 50% to the price!

Buses (if you can get them) are extremely cheap in Spain but, conversely, taxis aren't.  

There is no TV licence to pay for in Spain (£12.37 a month in UK) but many expats get a rebroadcast TV service which costs around €20 a month.  As Sky in UK now costs £44 a month (with no movie channels but including Sport) it's not too bad.  However, there is a very good digital TV system in Spain which (depending on where you live) will give you around 60 channels of which around a dozen or so allow you to change the audio to English if it was in English in the first place (mainly American like CSI, NCIS, Cold Case, Dexter, Friends, Castle etc but one channel actually shows Dr Who) and there are several kids channels like Clan, Boing and Disney which lets you use the dual language facility.  And they are free with no dish being required.  If you want a dish put up (to get the UK freesat stuff) it will cost a lot of money (1,000 euros ish) to get them.

If you lived in a city in UK, you will have been used to paying a relatively low price for your telephone and broadband.  If, however, you lived in an area with no competition you will be used to paying what they charge in Spain for these things.  50 odd euros plus a mont is not uncommon (in UK I was paying £160 a quarter for these whereas my brother, living in a city, was getting the same thing for less than £100 a quarter).  So shop around.

Eating out, like in UK, can be both cheap and expensive.  You don't have the chains like Harvester etc in Spain so you will now be paying more for your Sunday roast in Spain than you would in UK.  However, prices aren't as high in Spain as some people would have you believe.  Those who continue to say they wish they still had the cheap fish and chips like in UK are, I'm afraid, living in the past.  2 steak pies and a small portion of chips cost me £5.85 in our local chippy last month.  You will still get people telling you they get double fish and chips in UK for 3 quid but that is more wishful thinking.  A Chinese meal for two (including a bottle of wine) was £32 in UK last month at a not really spectacular venue.   Virtually the same meal (with wine) cost me €13 at my local Chinese in Quesada.   Not being a fan of the MDD at lunchtime (still can't get used to eating a lot until about 7 or 8 at night) I can't really comment but some of the deals seem pretty good for a 3 course meal.

Anyway, I still reckon it is cheaper for day to day living in Spain.  After all, we don't buy a new fridge or washing machine every month.  Or a new armchair or bed, come to that.  We avoid the English brands and, once you have found the Spanish equivalent, find them much better.  The Knorr stockpots, for example, which in UK are £1.25 for two are only €1 for 4 in our local Consum (the stuff you use instead of OXO).  Bread, apart from those long barras, is quite expensive in Spain and I'm not  talking of frozen Kingsmill etc which I see many buying.  So stick to the barras!  (Anyway, a loaf of Hovis in UK is now £1.45  so that's not exactly cheap either.)  The barras are much tastier, anyway.  Avoid Campbells cream of tomato soup and Heinz baked beans, avoid corned beef (the Brit stuff is terrible, anyway) and "British style" pies (make your own if you're that desperate).  We (occasionally) visit an Iceland store but only for things like frozen peas (the Spanish ones are terrible) and the odd cheesecake from the £1 range (now at €1.65) and would definitely not make a habit of going there

Shop around, the weather at this time of year will mean you will probably not want to eat so much, anyway.  Use the local markets as much as possible (they are fun to walk around, as well) and use tapas bars called Rodrigos or La Casita etc instead of ones called The Red Lion or Paddy's Bar or whatever.  The beer and wine will also be a lot cheaper.

 





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28 May 2011 7:46 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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Phew! I can see you've researched this extensively, Bob, that was quite a ramble. Just a couple of small points.

1. I would strongly suggest treating anything you read in the Telegraph as pure fiction. (See my recent post on a healthcare thread) Any survey of 13 countries that rates Spain and the Costa Blanca seperately should of course be treated with a huge pinch of salt.

2. Wooden spoons and such like: maybe the Chinese shops haven't reached your area yet, but when they do, expect to see all the old 100 peseta shops give up. They practically give stuff away.

And finally, just because you put so much effort into this post,  I'm going to let you into a little secret that will save you a small fortune on razors, whether you're in Spain or the UK. trust me, I've tried this. I've been using the same blade for at least a couple of months!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUHOARVf5c



This message was last edited by Roberto on 28/05/2011.

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28 May 2011 7:48 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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Sorry, should have embedded the video:

 


http://youtu.be/UuUHOARVf5c

 

Mmmm. Embedding not working for me. Maybe an IE9 issue?



This message was last edited by Roberto on 28/05/2011.

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28 May 2011 8:02 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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 1.  That survey was done by the Post Office, not the Telegraph.  It was also reported in quite a few other publications and travel sites and I should have said 13 resorts, not countries.  If you read it, it also gives you the expensive ones like Cyprus and Greece which are far more than UK.  In fact you can read it by clicking here.

2.  Yes, the Chinese shops have reached here (in fact, it appears they are every other shop, even pulled down a couple of supermarkets to build more) but that is where the prices come from.  A decent wooden spoon (not those spindly ones they sell that break when you try to stir milk) are €1.90.

3.  I haven't owned a pair of jeans for a long, long time.  I find leaving them for a month or so tends to sharpen them up a bit (the blades, not the jeans).  Notice they use the same ploy in Spain, now.  Keeping the cost the same but only giving 4 or 8 instead of 5 or 10.  Considering you can buy a cheapo MP3 player for a couple of quid, amazes me how they charge virtually the same for bit of tin and plastic (the blades, not the MP3 players but probably use the same material).

And, no, not a load of research.  Simply typed it as I thought it.  





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28 May 2011 11:39 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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1. Fair enough; although there isn't a link on the Telegraph site to the Post Office survey, I found it myself. Just my opinion, but it's the sort of meaningless junk the Telegraph like to publish. (Yes, I'm still angry about the healthcare article). I don't doubt that the respective reps from Meon Villas (whoever they are) found these prices, but I really don't think that this survey is extensive enough to make sweeping conclusions. The "cheapest" destination on the report was actually C'an Picafort on Mallorca. Not exactly one of the top resorts on the island, but anyway, anyone heading off to Mallorca for their jollies expecting it to be cheaper than the Costa Blanca (or pretty much anywhere on the mainland Costas) is going to be very disappointed. Even if they do happen to buy a similar basket of goods from the supermarket in C'an Picafort (does anyone actually go there?), any savings they make will soon be wiped out if they sit down at a cafe for a drink.

2. No comment

3. I suspect price fixing amongst the major razor manufacturers (there aren't many). They are of course grossly overpriced. Buy a pair of jeans (€6 in Carrefour) and beat them at their own game. Oh, and while you're there, Carrefour's frozen peas are really quite OK!

 



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29 May 2011 12:05 PM by formentera costa Star rating. 368 posts Send private message

Hi Marysafc,

do you sign up for the lidl newletter online or in the store.

also do you receive it through the post or online.

I would like to sign up for it as they often have some

good bargains on. thanks



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29 May 2011 2:13 PM by foxbat Star rating in Granada. 1112 posts Send private message

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lidl newsletter... on line signup just needs name and email addy.

fb



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29 May 2011 2:47 PM by Marysafc Star rating in Harrow and Peñiscola. 113 posts Send private message

 I get both english and spanish newsletters so I can see what's on offer when we are over as we still have to live and work in UK! Interesting to see them both as they vary on their offers by only a couple of weeks. As said go on to their site and sign up.



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29 May 2011 4:20 PM by formentera costa Star rating. 368 posts Send private message

tanks foxbat for the info



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29 May 2011 4:21 PM by formentera costa Star rating. 368 posts Send private message

Hi Foxbat, I meant thanks not tanks



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30 May 2011 11:36 AM by campoman Star rating. 17 posts Send private message

  it all depends on how you shop ,  we for example  went to  car boot sale  yesterday,  purchased table top fridge used few times £10, Laura Ashley curtains £5 , two sun loungers £8 each , ,portable telly with PS2 and bag o games £15,  an almost new kids bike £5 !  and loads of toys for grandchildren  . then  on  eBay  won double victorian  style cream metal  bed and  good quality matress hardly used £30 , gutted  got out bid @ last minuet on wooden patio table and 4 chairs ( went for £65 )   but sold shabby chic dressing table £120 ( brt @ car boot for £25   ; ))   then went to Tesco,s 1/2 hr b4 closing  time , brt  large joint beef reduced from £12 50  to £2.50 !. and over £30 quids worth of fresh atlantic cod  reduced to £6 the lot . (all now in freezer)  and  many other bargains , ( am scoffing cream cake wiv strawberrys  cost 30p ! , yum yum , ) all in all good fun was had , shame   we will have to do it all again next week !!  its not possible to shop like this in Spain, dont know what they do with food going out of dated ?its never sold off cheap to clear,  or  with the  things they dont need anymore  eBay just dosent work out there? and why no car boots ?? there are  so many on a Sunday  here . we were in Spain last  week and needed new curtains for apartment , as others full of mould , ( dont start me on the build quality !!) in  Leroy Merlin only one  in pack @ 17 euros !, and cheap and  nasty at that  ,(have turned nose up at better at car boot for a couple o quid !!) thankfully can bring nice £5  Laura Ashley ones out with me next time, not sure about the frozen cod and beef tho ???????????????





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