Cyclists and Cycle Paths

In 30 year living here and 20 years working with the police I have probably asked the police, both Guardia and National, more questions about the law, both for myself and for callers at the station,  than most. 

From that experience I know many do not know the law.  (That is probably so in UK too).

On a couple of occasions when I have asked the Guardia Civil and have been dissatisfied with their answer, they have called their helpline to Trafico and passed the phone to me so that I could ask the question.  On each occasion the answer given by the officer at the cuartel has been wrong.

As I said;    PS  I should be most grateful if someone is able to quote from the Guía de Tráfico if I am wrong.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 30/01/2017.

As I said many police officers clearly don't know the law (new, old, experienced, rank etc. across the globe not just Spain) no matter what they say or what they repeat.

but we are drifting

I am a very keen cyclist and have been road cycling for many years. I live in Valencia and I have been pulled over by the police for not using the cycle lane that was at the side of the road. Apparantly if there is a cycle lane you have to use it....in Valencia. I was not aware of that. I don't use the cycle lanes because they are in terrible condition and more suitable to mountain bikes. It is extremely dangerous to ride a road bike on some of the paths which is why I don't always use them. 

However I can't see any problem with cyclists using the road. I would expect nearly every cyclist has a car and pays road tax like everyone else so why can't they use the road if they abide by the law...?

eos_ian

I also did not know this about the law in Valencia when I first posted this thread.

When I cycle and try to keep to the cycle paths - shame many don't but I get it why many don't as they are not maintained which is also very sad

It is not about road tax per say but have we wasted good tax payers funds for something that is not used as intended

But is under taking at speed by a cyclist legal or not?. Who is at fault if there is a collision? Most of us drive every day, but no one seems to be sure.

I would have thought that in the case Mariedav spoke of which happened to her husband they actually got one of the more sensible cops on that day, one that knew the law inside out, yet also knew that mistakes happen, which thats all this was, no one was hurt, maybe pride, a few words exchanged and on your way.

Cant be no more sensible then that I would have thought.

potblack

In Spain according to wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtaking#Overtaking_on_the_inside

Spain - Undertaking is specifically prohibited, except for inner-city traffic, passing a vehicle clearly turning left or in congested conditions.

So as cyclists have to obey the rules of the road as all other motorists  then I would hazrad a guess it coudl be illegal unless in congested conditions

As a cyclist use common sense as a car driver use caution and all road users should be alert

The copy of the spanish highway code one of my children has is not clear or black and white either way.

Tadd1966 Your wiki quote does not quite add up. ’’ passing a vehicle clearly turning left’’  is this on the inside or outside? Is this UK or Spain.

baz1946 one that knew the law inside out. Well I would like to know it inside out. I had a similar and what if the cyclist had been killed?.

I think the Wiki one is about cars. However, the moped driver was adamant that he was taught to use the lane on the right to go past cars.

The law actually says:

Cyclists have priority over motor vehicles. (Artículo 64. Normas generales y prioridad de paso de ciclistas.
Los conductores de bicicletas tienen prioridad de paso respecto a los vehículos a motor:)

When turning right or left, the motor vehicle must give way to cyclists coming alongside. 

It was the last bit I think hubby was picked up for. The moped driver was in his blind spot so, when he turned right, the moped rider coming up alongside had right of way and we should have stopped to allow him to pass.

It's why I loved in when we lived on the Dutch border. The Germans and Dutch there have totally separate cycle lanes away from the normal lanes and they have their own traffic lights as well. If you're turning, there will be a traffic signal. Unlike some of the stupid cycle lanes in UK which go for about 10 yards so the council can claim funds. 

baz1946 one that knew the law inside out. Well I would like to know it inside out. I had a similar and what if the cyclist had been killed?.

But you're not a copper, or are you? And the cyclist wasn't killed were they?  And if you live in Spain and use the roads then you should know a something about the Spanish Road laws, many cops know the laws inside out, the nature of the job,  I should think the cop knew quite enough about the law on bikers turning left or right.

potblack / maridav

teh wiki link is not soecific just like the spanish higahwy code

the point I was trying to make is that undertaking is not allowed and as cyclist have to abide by the rules of the road imoplies that they cannot undertake

I have just read the 'Cyclist's Guide' distributed by the DGT and it specifically  mentions that you must overtake on the outside leaving a minimum distance of 1m 50cm between you and the vehicle being overtaken. If you can't you shouldn't overtake. Obviously you shouldn't obstruct oncoming traffic, or you will probably die!

But I think that answers the question.

Baz   And if you live in Spain and use the roads then you should know a something about the Spanish Road laws,

From reading forums and speaking to people in general,   I am of the opinion that many foreigners do not have sufficient knowledge of the traffic laws of Spain to enable them to drive safely here.

So Baz I would agree with you, and even go one step further.    I think it would make sense that all residents should be required to prove they have the level of knowledge of traffic law which a learner driver needs in order to pass the theoretical part of the Spanish driving test.    

But does it?. Can a cyclist under take on the inside (the right) at speed, legally?

Is this a case of kill a cyclist and the only way to find out is in court? Ian, will you be my expert witness? Can I plead, Ian said?.

But does it?. Can a cyclist under take on the inside (the right) at speed, legally?

Is this a case of kill a cyclist and the only way to find out is in court? Ian, will you be my expert witness? Can I plead, Ian said?.

Well I suppose Spain does have a law about the legality of undertaking, like it has a law on not drinking and driving or eating while driving with one hand control...And so on, but if you lived 100% by the laws of any one such country not much would get done....As for killing a cyclist you must have had some hairy moments riding your bike across the Yorkshire Dales to more then understand that.

Perhaps Spain has an open season for the killing of cyclists.

I am of the opinion that many foreigners do not have sufficient knowledge of the traffic laws

I think the same could be said of Spanish citizens

Similar in the UK (and probably every other country) for foregners and citizens

In the UK for example when you pass your test and apply for your licence you sign and accept the obligation to keep up to date with the highway code and all chanegs / updates.

From what I can see Spain has something similar. Maybe the EU has similar guides / obligations rules for driving acrsos the EU

For those foreigners swapping their home licence for a Spanish licence there will be a similar obligation

Not sure what penalties exist for a failure to keep up to date as per the obligation

Maybe after Brexit Uk expats may have to sit a driving test like they would if they moved to the US for example

Potblack I think you are getting a little pedantic with this. The laws say what you 'have' to do. The cycling code says how it should be done. So you will have to assume that anything else is not legal. If you are still in doubt ask the DGT directly. 

Tadd ................  obligation to keep up to date with changes in the law.  For those foreigners swapping their home licence for a Spanish licence there will be a similar obligation

I swapped my DL about 25 years ago and have renewed it several times since.  The regulation might be somewhere but I have never been aware of it.

Maybe after Brexit Uk expats may have to sit a driving test like they would if they moved to the US for example

My wife swapped her Philippines DL.   She did not have to do anything other than have the medical.  So I would be surprised if anything will change for Brits after Brexit.

I took a Driving Test in Florida in 1997. It suited me because when I produced travellers cheques, I was touring for 5 months in an RV,  they wanted to see my DL as proof of ID.  My UK DL at the time of course was as far as I remember just an A4 piece of paper, no photo etc.  They did not understand passports. So having a USA DL made life a lot simpler. 

 Talk about a simple drivng test, mulitple choice on a computer and a run up the road in my tow vehicle. A Ford Fiesta.    No wonder Americans who become resident in Spain need to take a test here.

before being let loose on the roads here.

eos_ian I have never heard say much waffle over a simple question. Every comment but a yes or no.

If I turn right and a cyclist comes up my inside at speed and collides with me and dies am I guilty or not  of causing the cyclists death? Simple question, not rocket science.

Would it depend on BREXIT, swapping my UK licence to Spanish,  sitting a Spanish driving test, moving to the US, being  born in the Philippines, having a medical, taking my test in Florida, having travellers cheques, what year I took my test, if I was driving a RV, ringing up the DGT because no one knows, reading the cycling code as a motorist, keeping up to date with the UK highway code, drinking and driving, eating while driving, driving with one hand, the Yorkshire Dales.

Should I ask 3-2-1 host Ted Rogers and dusty bin?

johnzx

don't need your life story (again)

I was not aware of the obligation of remaining up to date when passing a driving test in UK until about 10 years ago but it exists and has done for years. Where it exists in Spain I am not sure, what exists in the detail of the common EU licence agreements again is not clear

The point is it is the repsonibility for being up to date to local traffic laws is the responsibility of the driver.

A big part of  a driving test is the ability and competence to operate and control a vehicle on the road safely and within the law

Nothing will surpirse me as to what will or won't change post brexit - but that is for  the brexit thread