Proof of entitlement

This is a bit of a strange one, but my mother in law died intestate and under Spanish law, her part of the house goes to both her daughters. The legal people are asking for proof that there are no other children. If anyone has had a similar experience I'd love to hear from you as I have no idea as to how to prove that there are no other siblings.

Gary

The legal people are asking for proof that there are no other children.

What legal people?, if they are working for you tell them to earn their corn and find the solution.

A Spanish family in your position would have a "family book" that would probably surfice as the proof needed. I don't know the answer but would suggest maybe a sworn notarised statement in Spanish, surely your legal team can advise.

I think as part of the *proof* there is also an additional waiting period (I'm not sure how long this is, but I've heard around 6 months to a year) to allow any additional children of the deceased to make claims to the house.

If she had a will however, I believe that this is irrelevent as this overrides the default inheritance laws.

I'm sure I'll be corrected on these by someone, but this was my understanding...

I am married to a non EU national. When her Residencia (as a non EU she still has one) I had to prove that we were still married.  Of course one can prove divorce but, not having a ‘family book’  still married ?

Eventually I made a sworn declaration in front of the British Consul (Cost I think was 300 euros = robbery) who then gave a cert to say that I had said I am still married.   In reality it was a nonsense, but it was sufficient for the renewal.

Maybe a sworn declaration before a Notary wpuld be OK and a LOT cheaper.  Suggest you ask 'the legal people' you refer to if that would be acceptable.

gcsom

Sounds like the legal people need to sort themsleves out - I would go elesewhere and get advice

Proof that other children do NOT exist is ludicrous for anyone and makes no sense. If there is a will it is clear and if there are any other children (unknown to the rest of the family or teh legal registartion system) it is up to them to make a claim and prove their claim with evidence

The Spanish family book is a good idea but how does that orove that other children do not exist?

As for marriage all you need is proof of a valid legal marriage certificate and in some cases if this is not in the local language they may require a notarised translation - that is what a marriage certificate is for and why they are signed by registerd authorised individuals. Of course there may be some countires who do not recognise marraige certificates from certain other countries (same sex marriages, civil weddings, civil partnerships) and in johnzx case a spouse who is a non EU citizen has different rules for proof of wedlock

The EU is quite clear on marriage

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/couple/marriage/index_en.htm

Anyone who is divorced and produces an old marriage certifcate (which is no longer valid due to divorce) would be commiting fraud and if caught could be  in serious trouble!!!!

Oh, the joys of negotiating Spanish bureacracy!

After nearly two decades of submitting annual tax returns to Hacienda, a couple of years ago I was inexplicably asked to provide proof that I was NOT a tax resident in the UK. Of course, HMRC can issue tax residency certificates, but NON-residency? Despite there surely being something like 7 billion people in the world who are NOT UK tax residents, they nevertheless obliged by sending me a letter stating the necessarry info. But as for proving a lack of offspring...I have no idea who you should turn to.

Best of luck!

Thinking about John's case, I remember a few yeas ago an American friend had to renew his residencia, which had been issued on the basis of his wife being an EU national. Unfortunately, she had recently passed away, and although they had never divorced, the authorities claimed he was no longer legally married and therefore no longer entitled to residency. Apart from the obvious hurt caused by claiming he was no longer married to his late wife, the hoops we had to jump through to get it sorted were ridiculous. 

Initially, the proof of no further descendants is covered through witness appearance.

Notary gives publicity to the intestate file and therefore any possible legitimate heir have a right to appear at the probate procedure and act his/her rights then.

Tadd As for marriage all you need is proof of a valid legal marriage certificate

Sorry I did not make it clear.

I should have  said,  "When her Residencia (as a non EU she still has one) had to be renewed after the initial five years,  we had to prove that we were still married.  The marriage cert only proved we got married not that we were still married, i.e had not got a divorce in the interim.

Roberto. On you point:---  We have a non EU friend who got divorced and a Canadian friend who’s English wife died.   Both had been residents for over 5 years so had ‘permanecía’ status. They were able to renew without any problems.

johnzx

It may be different when you are married to an non EU citizen I do not know.

Yes it is.  

Non EU nationals must have RESIDENCIA as opposed to  EU Nationals who get EU Citizen Registration (the green card/A4 sheet).

johnzx

I understand that but was not aware that non EU citizens had to "renew" proof of marraige.

In all the years I have been married and lived in non EU and EU countries I have never had to "renew" proof of marriage and our marriage certificate has been proof enough when required.

I am not doubting you or anything else but yours is the first I have ever heard of (other than these programmes in the UK checking on scam marriages)

Thanks guys.

Fingers crossed, I'll contact the solicitor and see if a sworn statement will suffice.

Cheers

Gary

Tadd ........ but was not aware that non EU citizens had to "renew" proof of marraige.

Tadd, proving one's status is a requirement for renewal of a residencia,  but as that sort of problem  does not apply to you, that is you have clearly never been in that situation, i.e. married to a Non EU national who requires an Residencia to remain in Spain,  then why would anyone expect you to know anything about Non EU nationals living in Spain. 

 No problem Tadd.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 29/07/2015.

johnzx

fair enough I do not know, neither does it really concern me but it is interesting.

Just for info I am currently sat in my garen with a few friends and one couple are non EU citizens living in Spain (15 years now) and we have discussed  this (amongst other things) they have never been asked to "renew" their proof of marriage. Yes they had to provide a copy for residencial status etc. when they first arrived in Spain.

Maybe you have just been unlucky

Back to the cold wine, nibbles and good company

Maybe you have just been unlucky-

No it's not that it's just that you do not know Tadd, but don't let it worry you,  no one knows everything, albeit that they may like to.

I did not know about Non EU citizens’ residencia requirements for the first 16 years I lived in Spain, even though I had worked with the National Police for the previous 6 years. Then I married a non-EU citizen, and of course, I had to find out. 

It's all on the web if you really want to spend the time learning about it, although it would seem a waste of your time, unless you really want to know. Of course if you did you could  confirm that what I have posted is correct.  But I don't think that will inspire you Tadd !

PS Tadd,  if you want to send me 'explicit'  PM's please send them to me and not others, or better still post them.  It will save me apologising when people say they got PMs addressed to them but intended for me !

This message was last edited by johnzx on 29/07/2015.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

Hi All

I would like to apologise to all others on here for drifiting off thread, ** EDITED - Against forum rules **

T