Valuation costs

John.

Unles you carry out the searches in a proper manner you don’t know if there are any 'obscure matters'.

The local authority search consists of a range of searches which make up the con29 LA search.   If you went to pick one up you wouldn’t know what you were picking up, and i very much doubt you understood it.  If the purchasers solicitor accepted it from you, it’s very unusual and very risky imho.   

If you get the 'quick' search it won’t include the building control section which is chargeable separately.   So if, for example, as years went by and one of the prior occupiers of a house had taken out a chimney breast to make a wall bigger for kitchen or bedroom units, and not correctly supported the chimney breast through the loft space and to the roof, a solicitor wouldn’t have any information to see if that had been done in the prescribed manner and supported correctly (part of the FULL searches of the local authority).  

So when a chimney stack falls through a roof and kills someone (which has happened from time to time) I,m sure all concerned will be grateful to you for missing that information when you sold the house.   As long as you get what you want, alls well with the world eh.....

No jack I am not interested in receiving property details from anybody who simply wants to list a property using, as you said your photos and a 10 year old description

this is how we do it, we make an appointment and visit the property, photograph, do the description and an inventory, which the vendor signs off along with a contract

We require copy of utility bills, IBI payments, community payments, Nota Simple and Deeds

we advise on the presentation of the property and viewing access and finally agree the marketing price

if the property is not in an area where we can sell it then we will not list it

Jack Warner

Having only been a member of this forum fora short while I am coming to the conclusion that a few people use this forum as you suggest for their own purposes 

I think some actually believe they are helping but hidden amongst their posts it is clear they have their own agenda and want to boost their own egos or whatever

Like most things the minority spoil things for rest 

Not sure if I will carry on using this forum 

We shall see

I agree with baz on this one. The deposit contract compensation system seems a good way of doing things and certainly better than the English system of timewasters, gazumping and I’ve changed my mind brigade.

Unfortunately like most good and honest ways of doing things someone has to spoil it. Along comes the estate agent who wants to put his thieving hands in the till. Right from the start the agent is telling the buyer to give him the deposit and organising deposit contracts. What on earth is an agent doing getting involved in legal contracts, he has no more qualifications than a bin man. And even worse what is he doing touching money that has nothing to do with him.

Yes we have heard one statement on here ‘’it depends on the estate agents contract’’. You can well imagine that being implemented ‘’Just sign here Mrs Mug, all in Spanish, and sorry about your husband dying’’. Complete scam.

Hi Jack.   

With such opinions and a wish to make things better in the property market world it’s a real surprise you went into your house sale in the way you did.  

I recently put my villa on the market with 2 big well known Spain agents. They both just asked how much do you want over the phone. I said 350,000 euru would be nice and they both said OK email us some photos and the old description from 10 years ago. One has it listed at 395,000 euro the other at 369,000 euro. They have never been near the property, never a mention of any certificates.

You are correct Brian

Just goes to show what an education reading EOS can be.

Do you disagree with my statement about deposit contract abuse?.

No Jack don’t disagree too much at all.  

My thoughts about deposits and sales contracts are fairly simple.   

Its not fair to use a sales agent to market a property and then sell privately or through another agent without paying them for their time and efforts.   That probably means a basic contract should be in place, but very basic.  

Deposits in my opinion are taken in consideration of an order for goods or services that involve some work taking place, it’s then a basis for compensation if work is done for nothing (someone cancels).  Taking a deposit to just bind someone to go through with something they are just 'thinking about buying' when no one has done anything in particular to put them out of pocket, isn’t really a deposit at all.   

It’s a kind of leverage to make someone go through with something they may not otherwise be completely sure of.  

Dont you agree with that Jack?

Again people seem not to understand the way that the system normallly works and works well

the agent does not make the deposit contract or even take the deposit, the lawyer does

the agent does not receive or keep the deposit, the lawyer does

the deposit goes to the seller, their bank account, they keep the moneyi if the buyer pull out and get nothing

if somebody gives a property to an agent for sale, without the agent visiting the property, agreeing the marketing sales price or even signing a contract they are stupid and perhaps when a seller pays a deposit, to that agent it is unlikely they will see any money, hello there’s no contract and maybe they can then blame the seller not not having the correct documents 

Normally on receipt of a deposit it is not handed to the vendor till the lawyer has checked everything

sometimes on this forum people don’t like hearing truthful advice

still think jack is on a wind up, sorry

Maybe explain it better then Roy.  

The sgent doesn’t take the deposit, the lawyer does.    Who,s lawyer, who appoints them and who do they represent, when are they appointed?

you say the lawyer keeps the deposit but you go on to say it goes into the sellers bank account, so who takes the deposit it’s confusing.   

Then Roy you mention if someone gives a deposit to an agent.   What’s that mean, are there some deposits paid to agents?    

Then you say on receipt of deposit it’s not handed to the vendor until the lawyer has checked everything.  Is this the same deposit that goes straight into the sellers account or another deposit??

either Jack is on a wind up or he’s just bringing out how confusing the system is.  

Can I remind everyone the courts are chock a block with people trying to get deposits back, and being evicted, presumably because the system works and works well eh

Brian.

I mentioned the deposit (Spain) because thats the way the Spanish system works best at, I never intended it to be taken as something like forcing them to buy something they may not be sure of, it's done to stop people coming along and viewing your house, telling you they will buy it and never seeing them again, while you give them a couple of days or weeks to get back in touch, which many wont do, and maybe you told others that the house is, almost, maybe, might, could be sold, when it isn't, so perhaps lost other buyers.

A house is generally not an impulse buy, or shouldn't be,  any buyer should have done their homework concerning costs, valuations, can they afford it and so on. It is probably the only way to make sure you have a genuine buyer. In every case I bought  in Spain I paid a deposit, went with the seller to my solicitor, on that day, and did not back out.

Cars, large screen TV's often are impulse buys. 

I did have one house agent in Spain, British guy,  who up front said to me 'Are you in the position to buy if I show you the house,  can you then give me a 5,000€ deposit'  I must have looked like I come UP on the DOWN boat.

Ok Baz.  

I know there are lots of mind games and brinkmanship in this process, it’s almost a game, which is why some 'spivs ' can  get involved.   Some people and agents selling houses regularly say that there’s lots of interest, some offers are being made, you need to hurry up.   

Some buyers want to play a waiting game for reduction or see if the other house they are looking at is going to be sold from under their feet.   Gazumping cuts both ways depending on the current market forces I reckon.  

I seperate the car analogy Baz, the two biggest purchases people usually make are houses and cars, but cars don’t have the same personal structure as houses.  

So for these reasons I don’t agree with deposits until everyone has seen everything on the table and all agree.   Buying and selling houses is about people imho.   It’s got xxxx all to do with agents or lawyers because they come and go, but we need to make sure that what they do, is what we expect of them and it’s done professionally and fairly.  

I reckon you are probably a very fair and straightforward person who’s honourable.   Sadly there’s those around who aren’t 

I think it is the right to ask for a deposit ...it shows you are seriously interested in doing a deal.. The deposit must only be given to your lawyer on the understanding that if all the paperwork does not check out as OK ..that it will be returned to you immediately ...you should never give any deposit to a estate agent if you are a buyer if they insisted on a holding deposits then walk away without you they have no sale.

OP: "...all potential buyers are aware of each other, all are choosing to wait till they have valuations before making a formal offer and signing a contract. My only concern was that if all three valuations happen before I get an offer, am I then legally obliged to refund the two that can’t offer as I have accepted another offer, to which answer seems to be no." 

The way I see it (for what it's worth): no option to purchase contract signed, no deposit paid (to whoever), no commitment formally made by either party - not even an offer provisionally accepted. Nobody forced the potential buyers to obtain valuations, they simply have chosen to, so it's got nothing to do with you, the seller. You say they are all aware of each other, so presumably understand the risk that while awaiting their valuations, you may sell the property to another (or even withdraw it from the market); that's a risk they have to take. It's exactly the same in the UK with surveys: the buyer has to fork out for a survey (if he wants one), with absolutely no guarantee that the seller will eventually sell to him - although there's a moral obligation once an offer has been accepted, it's still not legally binding. This particular scenario seems no different to me to someone selling their car, and three potential buyers decided to pay for mechanics to inspect the car: if you then sell the car to a fourth person, none of the first three can claim the cost of the inspection from you, the seller.

So I say, don't worry, and just hope that at least one of them comes back with a sensible offer!

Brian said "either Jack is on a wind up or he’s just bringing out how confusing the system is." I'm not so sure it's the system that's confusing, so much as the way some on here are struggling to explain (justify?) it. 

Roberto.

Your correct about the way a sale can fall through during the process.     

All professionals in the process should be working in the same direction.  When I’m asked to conduct a survey for a client, it’s because they have made an offer and it’s been accepted, and this is through the agents and owners acceptance of that situation.  It’s like a meeting of minds in a simple legal term.   The process usually calls this a 'subject to contract' time.   

The first question I ask a potential client is 'what stage are you at' and give advice about the fact that sales can fall through unless there is a basis for commitment.    

The type of survey depends on the age, size and condition of the property and it may include a valuation as well as the survey, to check the banks or agents valuation or listing.  I have to be a registered valuer to do this and use a common method.   It doesn’t mean I have to get the exact figure the others arrive at or it’s wrong, it means I have to use the method and be able to justify my figures.   

So all in all it can happen that a house is sold during the contract stage but it hasn’t happened to me yet, and that’s a long time and many contracts.    

I bet it’s happened in Spain on occasions though, from the system I have seen 'explained' so far on here.  

Presumably your clients are mostly buyers? I was actually thinking of the possible scenario where such a buyer obtains (and pays for) a survey, only for the seller to turn out to not be committed to selling. Happened to someone I know recently. Cost them 500 quid, with no compensation from the "seller", never mind the agent who presumably hadn't vetted the seller addequately to find out "'what stage are you at"!

Yes Roberto.  I deal almost exclusively with buyers.  If the agent sold the property to someone else with all prior knowledge, they should be ashamed. 

The seller just decided not to sell. 

Ok.  Just an unfortunate circumstance then.  It’s a very big decision so you have to be pragmatic in such a case.   I hope there wasn’t a long chain involved too.  

Great news on my side. All three valuations were completed. One got the mortgage offer (mid offer) and confirmed they want to proceed. Contracts are signed and deposit paid. Very happy. Thanks to all those that helped. 

Great......two out of four happy is a good result I presume!     Glad it’s over Simon.