Justice in Spain?

........words fail me as well!....found this post on the other site.  I ask you, what bloody chance does a decent person stand of a fair result? ........I'm furious.

Bad news, folks.

This hearing was an appeal of an appeal of a case that we initially won way back in October 2006 against MVG. We had bank guarantees, and good legal arguments (illegal build, no LFO, build not as promised in the contract, late completion, you name it...) and an excellent lawyer. After our winning the case, the bank paid the money into the court but immediately appealed. The appeal was set for six months later, May 2007, but was then postponed for a further 5 months. This time we have lost.

The reasons given are that insufficient documentary evidence was produced by our lawyer to prove that the apartments weren't 'finished', and also because not having an LFO is not enough reason to cancel the contract. This is in spite of the fact that 20 pages of documents were produced by our lawyer including some reports from Marbella´s Town Hall to show the licence was illegal, and he asked their architect from the Town Hall to go to Madrid and declare as witness on our behalf.

"He was in the Court and declared :

"licence was illegal"

"Urbanization was illegal"

"in April 2006 (6 months after the moment they should give you the apartments) urbanization was empty and works were unfinished"."

IN GOD'S NAME WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET JUSTICE IN THIS ROTTEN STATE OF SPAIN ??

Words fail me!!!

roots

Hi Justin,

Yes read the 'other' site and they said they would appeal and maybe it will have to go to the Supreme Court but they won't give up.

Justin

yes, it certainly is ridiculous, why on earth should someone have to appeal to a Supreme Court on a case as clear as this?  It makes those of us fighting for justice feel that the Spanish court system will probably just cheat and lie, whatever the evidence???........it's the stuff of nightmares, and what a  message for potential buyers!

This case represented not one case  but ....five !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Amended.   Sorry, I said six...it is five

Tish

.....now this case sounds well worthy of a BBC prog'. I wonder how many people out there have any idea about how bad/corrupt Spains justice system can be?

I would think it would pay everyone who has bought in in Spain  to complain about this sort of on-going scandal. The bad guys must think it's hilarious, and the long term damage to Spains reputation could be enormous?.  It's bad enough being screwed by the agent/lawyer/developer, but when the judges join in??? 

Goodstich, I really don't think another prog' be it BBC or whoever, will make any difference.  I am at a loss for words over this.

Hi Justin,

They are all based in the UK, with a Spanish Lawyer, who I also know very well.

As a spanish lawyer please let me launch a defense in favour of my country:  I  tend to think that justice in Spain can be as messy as in any other country.  I can assure that we have got a serious and solvent judicial  system and enough legislation to cover good defenses.

I would like it to be taken as a a contraweight because I am not comfortable with massive comentaries on disasterous justice. It creates a big sense of legal unsecurity which is not fully real and that can put many people in unnecessary worriness. There are many fair court decissions passed in similar cases. I know of many of them, we study and use them  daily for the defense of our clients.

Also, there are many experts studying an improving the legal science for the defense of consumers/individuals.

 Of course I fully believer what you are talking about and  am very sorry for those affected by unfair Court decissions ( at the end of the day it is just life!) and wish them good appealings and success at the end.

Maria whilst I always respect your views and advice, I can tell you that the lawyer concerned does not think this  was a  fair and just result, according to the law. Far from it.

There most certainly is a feeling of legal insecurity  coming from Spain, from many people caught up in the corruption that surrounds the property market.


This message was last edited by Tish on 10/3/2007.

Hi Maria

It's always good to hear your opinion on matters like this, and you really are great help to people on this site, but with all due respect, an unfair court decision to those people involved who have been cheated not only by the developers but by the judge also, is not in my opinion ' just life' .......It is a disaster that need not and should not happen in such a clear case, if the judge is worthy of his/her position?

I of course realise that there are many fair decisions made, but that's no consolation to those who have been treated in an unfair way. Why on earth should it have to go to appeal, is it not the judge that should be called to account instead?

If there is another side to this story that we don't know about to justify the judges decision, then i apologise for insulting the judicial system that you wish to defend. If not, then i feel this is just an appalling way to treat an innocent person/s, and deserves the highest critisism.

Goodstich,

While I do agree with what you are saying, the judicial system is in some respects no different to that in the UK. If an 'unfair' decision is taken there you still have to appeal, even in the UK you do not hold the Judge to account, they may well be dealt with later by the system!!!!

I know there are some bad cases going on and things are different here but along with this there are a greater number of good things happening as well. I think the point Maria was making was life is not always fair and just and sometimes you do have to fight hard to get some wrongs put right

That said I do hope that the appeal is succesful and done quickly.

The background of this case is that last October the Judge found in favour of these five cases. A very large sum of money was paid into the Court where it was held because the developer appealed. The appeal was to be heard in May this year but was put back to September this year.  This will be the second appeal. This is costing these people yet more money. I know that  one is an elderly lady. All she wanted was a place to enjoy the winters for herself and a holiday home for her family. Now she is fraught with worry. To say "that's life" is insulting IMO. As she said, she'll be in her grave before this comes to an end.

How can a Judge tell people they have to complete on a property that has no LFO because the urbanization, at this moment in time is deemed illegal. Therefore it has no LFO. They should have been completed...LFO in place in July/September 2005.

The Marbella Town Hall Architect went to Madrid as a witness to tell the Judge this. The Judge had a 20 page document with all the info needed to prove the situation. They Judge said there was not enough evidence to say they could not complete on the purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Their  Spanish Lawyer says this is an unjust and unfair verdict and that the law has not been applied. They have to appeal...again ..........at a higher level.

Rusty/Tish/Maria

i think we are all saying the same thing really , though the very fact that life is somtimes 'unfair', makes it all the more important that judges make at the very least, the right common sense decisions. If there is clearly two sides to the story, then fair enough, but in a case that sounds as one sided as this, how can it in any way not be an obvious case of right and wrong?  The lengths these people are having to go to, just to get jusice is absurd. 

Hi All.

Firstly, good luck with the appeal, lets hope it will be reversed in your favour. Unfortunately in all countries including the u.k, those that are in the right, do not always win their case. I know what Maria means when she said THATS LIFE. I think what she is saying is that it is not a perfect world and mistakes and injustices do take place. They should not but they do. It is of course devastating for those people that are concerned.

I know at the moment in Spain there does seem to be a lot of fraud taking place with regards to the granting of licences and illegal building but of course fraud is rife in lots of countries even the u.k a lot of which we sometimes do not hear about. Where there is money there is greed which we are all guilty of to a degree but there are a few who are prepared to break the law and bend the rules for financial gain, no matter who gets hurt.

I just think it may be a bit unfair to tar all the spanish people with the same brush when they clearly dont have a monopoly on fraud. I still think it is a great country to live and retire in and finally i really do wish you all the best with your appeal.

Good luck and keep us informed.

                   Bob.