Help...! Drains...!

Regulars to this site and certain other expat forums will know that during our relocation from England we have encountered all sorts of problems.

 This latest is one of a series related to our house and concerns the drains...

 The house is a renovated village house, which retains part of the original concrete main drainage pipe.

 Our project manager’s workforce installed a new bathroom and kitchen with all new plastic drains which join up with original drains underneath the living room floor. The ground floor is tiled throughout so access to the main drain is impossible without first  removing floor tiles and about 9 to 12" of concrete. The bathroom is at the back of the house with drainage for the bath/shower, the loo and a washbasin, then, coming further forward we have the kitchen which is plumbed for a sink unit and a washing machine.

 For reasons best known to themselves, the team installed the new drainage with no access points for rodding...I know a lot of the problem was due to space availability, but the use of multitudinous right angle bends make it almost impossible to use even the flexi-spring type of drain clearance tool.

In the bathroom the drains are behind stud walls (again all tiled) and under concrete and in the kitchen a similar situation exists.

 For reasons best known to himself our project manager walked off the job before completion and is of very little help.

 Two weeks ago we started to have problems...flushing the loo caused water(?) to appear in the bath. Using the washbasin brought a similar result. The kitchen sink takes a long time to drain. To my way of thinking the problem therefore lies forward of the kitchen.

 In desperation I emailed our project manager and asked his advice. His reply was very helpful...NOT.

 Quote "Remove the loo and rod it from there, if that doesnt work call a plumber..." Unquote .

 Cant do that because the loo is a horizontal rear extract rather than a vertical. The pipe from the loo goes back about 12" then turns 90 degrees downward to meet the main drain again at 90 degrees. So we have two 90 degree turns in the short space of a couple of feet. Conventional rods are therefore completely unsuitable. I explained this in a further email to the project manager who has decided to ignore this second email completely.

 Again in desperation I went to the local Ferretaria and bought a couple of kilos of cautic soda, made up a saturated solution of 1 kilo of this and dumped it down the kitchen sink. Much gurgling and other tubular noises but not much real effect.

 Reluctantly I called a local plumber who claims to specialise in blockages and came out right away. He had a look at the system and like all plumbers worldwide, shook his head, took a sharp intake of breath and set to work.

In machine-gun speed Spanish the meaning of most which was totally beyond me, he explained he would have to remove the loo and try to clear the system from the loo drain. Given that it was now 8pm he would come back the following day.

 The next morning he reappeared with his assistant daughter and they set to work removing the loo. This in itself was no easy task because rather than use screws to bolt the thing to the floor it was secured using a rubber mastic solution As a result it took over two hours just to get the loo out!

 He then used a flexi-steel drain rod and attempted to clear the blockage. How successful this was I don’t know, because when he withdrew it, it was coiled up on itself for about 2/3 of its length. He seemed satisfied however and set about re-installing the loo.(Using screws I’m pleased to say).

 At this point I had to leave the house for a few minutes. 

 When I returned, he had fresh water in all the sinks and the bath and demonstrated the free outflow from each. All appeared to be well, and so it remained for three days…

The plumber made a charge that I consider to be very expensive considering his time on site…max about 5hours…320 Euros.

 Very expensive in view of the fact that three days after the ‘fix’ the problem reappeared just as bad as ever…I hesitate to call him out again…my knowledge of Spanish is not good enough to get into a serious discussion with him. Literally 320 Euros down the drain…

 Given that my project manger doesn’t want to know, I am faced with having to pay someone to do the job properly. We are still none the wiser as to where or what the blockage actually is. I can’t see it being building rubble since the drains had been fine for the previous eighteen months following installation. I don’t have the tools to investigate and we are very short of money since my wife had to make an unexpected return to the UK in January for a month.

 This has been a very long entry… If anyone out there has any suggestions I would be very appreciative.

 

        

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Hi foxbat.  It seems you just can't keep out of trouble!

Sounds a bit of a nightmare really and a waste of money.  By the way, he is quite an expensive plumber....

Knowing absolutely nothing about toilets and plumbing I can't really offer any advice but I would get the plumber back as he obviously hasn't sorted out the problem.

In terms of the project manager, why not name and shame so that others can be warned about him?

Best of luck with it.

Justin

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Hi Foxbat.

I am not a Plumber (we now call the Public Health Engineers!!) however, I am a Building Services Engineer in charge of the maintenance of several hundred properties.  I hate to discourage you, but my findings on drains is "once a problem, always a problem" and unless some pretty drastic work is done to get over whatever the issue is, you are unlikely to find the cure. 

It is not true to say that it can't be building rubble as building rubble tends only to stop the solids and let the water flow through.  As solids build up against the obstruction the flow of water is restricted and strangled until it stops.  In the UK, and I bet in Spain as well, it is often considered huge sport by the more subhuman of the species (usually a labourer) to drop a dob of mortar or plaster down the drain sufficient to obstruct, insufficient to show up as an obstruction on a flow test, but enough to cause untold woes to the buyer.

To me it sounds like your plumber just managed to break up the obstruction a bit and move it on down the drain a few yards.  Water would begin to flow freely again until the solids once more formed against the obstruction.  It could of course be a collapsed drain somewhere further along the line, but your description doesn't sound like that. 

I know it is difficult in an old property to get sufficient rodding locations, but I would never be happy with such a situation where a drain could not be cleared.  There should technically be manholes or rodding eyes at every change of direction or joint, but in Spain this is rarely the case.  In the Basement of our place in Spain we have the the main rodding eye for the whole block and I hate to think what would hapen if that ever had to be opened up!  there are loads of issues with old drains such as falls (the drain must fall in the direction of flow to work and subsidance where the drian sags in one area, often under a road where the weight of traffic compresses the soil locally.

I can't give you much more discouragement without a fairly good idea of the drain runs and in the long run, you may have to bite the bullet and put in some sort of rodding location at a key point, even if it's in your living room.  As for the cost - for Spain horrendous, but if you are desparate you pay.  I agree with the EOS team, get the plummer back.

 

Mike

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Hi Foxbat,

I had exactly the same problem with my property and i think Xetog explanations rings true with our situation.

We had to get the guys with the camera to rod ours to find the obstruction as the first visit from a plumber cleared the problem but only temporarily.

I watched on the monitor as thye rod weaved its way down the pipe for about 5m and came across an empty 2L bottle of San mIguel!!! Obviously the builder had decided that the best place to leave his empties was my sewage pipe.

When they found the blockage they forced it to a point away from the house where they fitted an inspection point(lots of bricks piled up with a lid on it)

I think you may have the same problem and need the camera guys to eradicate or at least discover the problem.

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Hi all,
Thanks for your replies and suggestions.
Have been in contact with the local town hall via a Spanish speaking friend.
Thanks Bob if you read this.
They are going to send someone out to check the main street drain because it maybe that we are not the only people in the village experiencing problems.
If its in the Street its their problem, if its in the house its ours...

I've also been in touch with a couple of other folks who seem to agree that even by Spanish standards our Local plumber saw us coming...!
A company in Granada who specialise in Domestic Emergencies have quoted me approx 200Euros depending on what they find, but given that this includes their call out and a 100Km. round trip it seems a far better option than engaging the original plumber again.

As always, if we do have to use the Granada company and they turn out to be good and reasonable I'll give them a 'big up' on this site.

In terms of naming and shaming our project manager, still cant do that because he still has all the permissions for the renovation here (always assuming he actually got permission...), he also has all the receipts for purchases of materials.  All rightfully ours but without litigation I doubt we will ever see them.

But I'll give you a hint... Think Channel 5 TV  "Property Development Abroad." I'll leave you to do the detective work...and form your own conclusions. Just dont ask me on the forum if you are right...

So it becomes a case of watch this space for further news...

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