non resident bank account

Still 3 months.  Anyone moving abroad for over 3 months should de-register with the NHS in UK so that benefits can be paid to the Health Authorities in their new country of residence if in the EEA.
If you are moving back to the UK you immediately become eligible for NHS treatment again.  The only thing that matters is where your normal places of residence is.  If you are living in Spain for more than 6 months a year you will be resident in Spain.  If you are in UK for more than 6 months a year you are resident in UK.  You will find it very difficult nowadays (but not impossible) to get 3 months worth of prescriptions from your doctor as the government has decreed only 28 days of medication should be prescribed at one time.  Our GPs will give 2 months for people going on holiday but even that is defying the rules.
However, it does make sense in some ways.  If you go into an elderly persons house when they die, I guarantee you will find months and months supply of medication.  We have many, many patients who live in India and have their medication sent abroad or come into the country and get their "free" medication to take overseas with them.  We even had one who lived in Jamaica and her family would claim the repeat and post it to her.  The amount of "wasted" medication in Leicestershire alone last year was over £2 million.  Imagine that wastage throughout the country.  And, remember, once medication is issued, the pharmacy is not allowed to take it back and reissue it even if the pack has not been opened.

You are, however, entitled to any "emergency" treatment required in any EEA country regardless of age.  In UK, all EEA nationals are entitled to free healthcare no matter how long the visit, which shows that other EEA countries (notably Spain and France) aren't playing fair on this.  Whilst you will have to show your EHIC on the continent, I doubt if many receptionists in UK would even recognise one, let alone ask for one.

My latest guidance is that the 3 month rule still applies but will keep you posted if anything changes.

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Bob, you're very knowledgeable about the health part, have you experienced what we have been discussing at great length with your own Spanish bank ? Can we enquire who you bank with, seeing as you're in Quesada area, like many of us ? We've established Banco Halifax has not got a problem with this .


This message was last edited by morerosado on 8/2/2008.

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I for got to say i did not have a bad day today but we do all face the same problems and yes we still buy in spain just for the sun  and we are saving water in bottles just in case we have the builders water turned  off bye irene


This message was last edited by irenemontague on 8/2/2008.

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Wow, long thread - time for the monkey to butt in!

Irene, you obviously didn't see the recent TV program about new homes? (Sorry, forget what channel, think it was called New Homes from Hell). Naturally, it featured a property disaster in Spain, but actually was otherwise about UK homes. In one case, some new homes were literally falling apart, and despite the NHBC 10 year warranty, 3 years on, the owners were stilll fighting for some justice. Scant consolation for all those who've been ripped off here, but at least it put some perspective on things. Spain is far from perfect, but some of the problems are not unique to Spain. In fact, if you are resident in Spain, trying to maintain a UK bank account can sometimes be troublesome, which brings me nicely....

......back to the main topic. I'm a bit puzzled still as to why Lizair's account was frozen. Does anybody actually know? Was it just because she never completed a non-res declaration, or was it something to do with having signed on the padron? Sorry if this was answered way back, but as I said, it's a long (and sometimes boring, and bitchy) thread.

I'm also a bit puzzled about this every two years thing. As a resident in Spain, I have for a long time had my UK accounts registered as non-UK resident accounts. Previously, this entailed completing a form (R105) for the inland revenue or whatever they are called these days (daylight robbers?) once, and that was it. Recently, I have received correspondence asking for additional information, due to the European Tax and Savings Directive. This has obviously been passed down from Brussels, and as such, I would have expected the requirements for non-resident accounts in Spain, to be exactly the same as for non-res accounts in the UK, or any other member state for that matter. Of course, we all know that Spain (and other members) like to ignore EU directives for as long as they can get away with it, but it would be interesting to know precisely what the EU directives say, and also what the Spanish authorities would have to say if confronted with this.

Incidentally, I do not have to pay anything for the privilege of registering my UK bank accounts as non-res. Apart from the cost of numerous phone calls to sort out the mess they frequently make, but I usually succeed in getting these costs refunded! After one such foul up recently, the bank (Halifax, in case you're interested) had to close my account and re-open a new one (long story) and in order to register the new account number as non-res., I had to call the "registering accounts as non-resident department" or some such call centre, was read a declaration, and had to say "yes" at the end! A few days later, I received a very poorly worded letter (probably translated from Urdu) asking me to provide my address overseas, DOB, town and country of birth, and tax identifaction number in country of residence. It also stated that I had to provide original or certified copies of identifying documents containing this information. It said the acceptable forms of ID are passport, photo driving licence or national ID card. Since the abolition of ID cards for foreign EU residents in Spain (thank you Brussels for that beauty), I have no formal ID that shows all of the required info. I noticed at the bottom of the letter it said if you have already provided this information, you can ignore this letter. I have never provided ID since moving to Spain, but the other info they have. So I called the "EU tax and savings directive time wasting department" to check, before popping off to the notary to certify copies of every piece of documentation accumulated since birth. They checked my "profile", and said they have all the info they need thank you, and I don't need to do anything else. (So why send the letter?)

I don't trust them (past experience etc. etc.) and will now watch carefully in case the Halifax Constabulary decide to freeze my accounts!

Just going back to the banks here charging for this non-res declaration, a reminder to all that most Spanish banks charge for just about everything they can get away with, whether or not your account is in credit. (Some exceptions). I would not be at all surprised to see UK banks adopt similar tactics, because a) they're mostly scint and need cash badly - although you wouldn't know it from the attitude of their customer service staff, and b) they will soon all be owned by Spanish banks (rumour last week that BBVA were eyeing up HBOS, and Santander are obviously hungry for some more British blood!)

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Good evening Roberto

We didn't find out why Liz's a/c was frozen, no, apart from her bank saying she had to fill a form in through the police, WHATEVER that particular form may be as we cannot fathom it all out. Maybe her bank omitted to get her to sign the "regular "declaration of non residency when they opened her a/c. Hubby & I, as well as others in our area, are not experiencing this hassle from our banks (indeed our banks yesterday said all was in order) & we have all signed on The Padron. My declaration, & that of my husband, doesn't run out till end Sept.






This message was last edited by morerosado on 8/2/2008.

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I have 3 bank accounts in Spain (don't ask, long story) and haven't received anything about this.  I got the two yearly renewal certificate for signing in March from Bankinter, a charge from Bancaja in June for the same thing and haven't heard anything from CamBank as yet.

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See below e-mail from the bank we received 
 

Regarding your account with us

 

Since May this year it is compulsory that all the non residents in Spain have a “Certificado de NO residencia”. You apply for that at the police and it cost 6,70 eur. If you don’t have this certificate the account will be frozen until you have given us the certificate.  You have to go personally or with POA to the police.  However it is necessary that you deal with this matter as soon as possible as your account at the moment is frozen.

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Thank you, Liz. I don't know what to say. 

My bank Banco Halifax (CB) made it perfectly clear & I posted their emails to me on this thread. 

Pat & Roy, (on the CB too) if you are reading this, did you email your Bank of Valencia to ask them ? 

Semi, (on the CB) you're same as us Banco Halifax, aren't you ? 

Gypsy (on the CB) is Banco Halifax too.

Bobaol's (on the CB) is with Bankinter, Bancaja& CamBank & all seems well with him.

Irene (CDS) is with ? & have you checked with your bank, Irene ?

Just trying to get the full picture here as something's not right.

I can't find a thing on internet.




This message was last edited by morerosado on 8/2/2008.

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Curious, this one! It would certainly appear from the letter from Lizair's bank, that a new "rule" has been introduced. What rule? Whose rule? Why don't they expand on this? As I posted before, I would have thought that Spanish banking must adhere to EU directives. If there is a new rule for non-res accounts in Spanish banks, what about non-UK res accounts in UK banks? I do not have to pay for a certificate of non-residency in the UK (since I have declared that I am resident in Spain, obviously I am not resident in the UK), so it seems to me that Spain, or some Spanish banks, are (illegally?) discriminating against EU nationals who are not resident in Spain but need a bank account here. Perhaps if Maria de C is following this one, she can elighten us?

Found this while surfing for more info:

Non-residents need to provide a passport or an identification document valid in their country (such as a passport or ID card, but you might have problems with driving licenses, this depends on the bank). In addition, within 15 days after opening the account, you technically must justify your non-resident status by providing a certificado de no residencia. You can apply and collect this certificate at a local police station. Every two years thereafter, the bank is supposed to perform a check on your non-resident status. In the event that you do become a resident after opening the account, you must notify the bank and give them a copy of your tarjeta de residencia.

In reality, many banks do not ask for the certificado de no residencia. If a branch requires this, we would suggest either going to another branch of the same bank or to a different bank to try to avoid this inconvenience. 

Interesting! This may well be out of date, but I also found some chat on another forum, suggesting that the situation tends to vary from one bank to another. It appears that LizAir's bank was lax when originally opening the account, in not asking for the certificate, and as a result now she has been penalised. My advice, once it's been sorted, is change bank!

I think this is the form you need for the non-resident declaration: http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/modelos/extranjeria/modelos_extranje/ex_13.pdf 
They do change from time to time though, and I've seen various others, so don't hold me to this! There are more recent forms for applying for residencia, but they don't appear to have an option for a certificate of non residency.

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O  my god what in wrong with spain do they want us all to take are money and go home liz,we paid are council tax and the rubbish bill last time out and when we left spain there was a 3 tax that should have been paid costing just 5 euros yes 5 euros so why when i went to the town hall to pay these 2 bills did they not tell me about this?i am glad i will be keeping my  house in england as long as we can even if that means renting it out when i leave work and move to spain bye irene

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Thanks everyone for your support it really helps hopefully it will all be sorted this week by our lawyer using power of attorney although this will be an expensive way of doing it we feel we have no choice. And yes I think we will be changing banks

Liz x

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I got 2 bank statements today.  No mention of account being frozen (they're still making charges for cheque cashing and account maintenance) and one of the charges was €15,36 for "verificacion de certificado de no residencia".  That little snippet was debited on 24th June. 

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Been looking at some of the major banks' websites to see what, if any, info they have. 

Found this at Solbank, which explains things a little bit:   

Exclusive information for Solbank customers with tax residence outside Spain.

The return on accounts and deposits of persons not resident in Spain are exempt from tax in Spain under the Income Tax for Non-residents Law (Law 41/1998).

In order to apply this exemption, the Spanish Tax Authorities require the signature of a personal written declaration in which you state your tax residence in another State. This declaration is valid for two years, after which it must be renewed.

Since December 1999, when this requisite was defined, until the present day, several extensions of this obligation to renew have been established for the holders of accounts resident in member States of the European Union, pending the coming into effect of the "Directive on Taxability of Savings " this requisite to prove residence should be replaced by those provided in the Directive.

The extensions have ended

However, finally the Spanish Tax Authorities have considered the need to maintain the personal declaration of tax residence so as to benefit from the exemption from tax withholding and has set as the deadline for renewing the declarations renewed previously as 30 September 2004. As of this date, 15% withholding must be applied to the payment of interest on accounts and deposits whose holders have not renewed their declaration.

If you have not yet filled out this renewal at your Solbank branch, do not forget to perform this procedure so as to maintain the tax conditions of your accounts. To simplify this, we recommend one of the following options, to be performed as soon as possible:

• Go to your Solbank branch.

• Download here the tax residence declaration

Interesting that they appear to have their own certificate - no need to go to the police, then?

Lloyds TSB have this: https://www.lloydstsb.es/offer/ident_papers.htm 
No mention of any need for a certificate. And why on earth do they need to know details of your salary?

Halifax mention the forms, and have them available in branch: http://www.halifax.es/halifaxing/acc/openingacc.asp?sec=acc 
Again, no need to go to the police to get it?

I think perhaps some of the banks, like Bob's, charge for renewing the certificate, because as non-residents, you are unlikely to go to the hassle of going to the police / foreigner's dept. every two years to get the certificate (which should only cost you €6.70) and they therefore effectively do it on your behalf.

I still wonder about the legality of this, under EU directives? It's a blatant tax on non-residents.

The other scandalous charges (maintenance etc.) are the same for all customers, resident or not. Expect your UK banks to follow suit soon!



This message was last edited by Roberto on 8/2/2008.

This message was last edited by Roberto on 8/2/2008.

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Banco Halifax Espana charges us nothing. It was one of the reasons we decided to bank with them as Cambank were charging 17.60€ per person named on the non resident a/c.

For anyone wanting to change to Halifax you can open an a/c, for a branch in Spain, in the UK. The pack has the declaration forms in it. They give you a post paid A4 envelope to post it all to Halifax UK European Banking Dept. I have all the details.

Good Googling Roberto.


This message was last edited by morerosado on 8/2/2008.

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I still hate Halifax (UK)
If it wasn't so much hassle to open a non-resident account in the UK with another bank, I'd quit them now, 'cos I'm fed up with every year having to  with idiots at call centres.

Anyway, all Googled out for tonight - it's over 30c in here, and until I get a wireless connection and a laptop I can use out on the terrace......it's good night form me!

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Roberto

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Liz I'd ask your solicitor for a copy of the declaration before he/she lodges at Police Station.

You can then compare it with the pdf files people have listed on here and see how it compares.

Also Bobaol has 3 different Spanish bank accounts and he has to complete a declaration on each one (he's done two so far this year).  If you change banks then you might have to go to police station again.

I now bank with Halifax.ES and I changed over from Solbank in October last year.  This coincided with my 4th anniversery of having a non-resident account.  I can't remember if I signed a form at Halifax then as there were so many bits of paper passing back and forth.

Two years before I was paying money into my account at Solbank and the teller told me I had to sign a declaration form.  I bought my house 15 October 2003 and I'm always out in Spain 1st two weeks of October so the timings perfect.

Solbanks fees were too high for me so I changed over to Halifax.  With Solbank I used my debit card once to change the pin number in the machine so when I opened my Halifax account I declined the debit card.  I use my Nationwide debit card to get out whatever cash I need for each trip and also to load up the account for the next lot of direct debits.

It works for me, I've always kept a large balance in my bank account so I elected to go for the account with no maintenance fees as long as you kept an average 6 month balance of 600e.

I did read afterwards a reccommendation from another customer for the other account that you pay 25e a year for.  With this account you get access to a helpline and he had found it very useful on several occasions.  If he was unable to make himself understood he would dial it and the person at the other end would translate for him.

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Hi all,
we also bank with banco halifax, we must have signed this non resident declaration when
we opened the account just over a year ago. Not so our other bank, we still have an account with
Bankinter with about 600 euros in,at the moment we are waiting for mains electric and as soon
as this happens then we will close the account, as the builder has our bank details ie; being a 
new build we would have to give him details of our new account for electric if we closed Bankinter now.
NO WAY WILL WE DO THIS. so are stuck with them at the moment. Last year in October we received
this form, signed it and returned to Bank, next statement received had deductions of just over 24 euros
each for them to lodge this form. DAYLIGHT ROBBERY Hope our electric is sorted before the charge
is due again next October.

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Hi all, only last week I made enquiries with both the department of work and pensions and with the department of Health regarding my position which may answer your questions:

I am under pensionable age with an infirmity pension from the teachers pension agency. I am registered on the incapacity benefit, although I don't receive any money, just a N.I. credit. My question to them was whether I required to fill out a form either 106 or 121 in order to get health cover in Spain as I was likely to be spending up to 6 months over there. I was told that this was not necessary that the ECHI card was sufficient and, tht if I was in Spain for longer than 3 months, but not more than 6 months it would be considered as an extended holiday and was acceptable. I was told to take the telephone number of the NWP department in Cardiff and my national insurance number with me when I went and, if I had any trouble, to get the spanish authorities to ring them.  Apparently the spanish have an annual form to fill in as to how much treatment has been given using ECHI cards and the UK NHS then pay up.

Last year when I as going to Spain for 3 months I had no problem getting the doctor to provide me with a prescription for 3 months medication.

Hope this is helpful.

Julia

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Jules - Your post is very helpful.  You are going for an extended holiday and in your circumstances it's good to read that it's not going to effect your NI credits.

Mine also as I'm over 55 and should also be receiving NI credits until I retire.  These automatic credits cease when you go abroad to live so this business of registering in Spain after 3 months was starting to worry me.  Mainly though because of the health care.

The NI credits I'm receiving also aren't really necessary as it's all changing in 2010 and you only need 30 years of credits to get a full pension.  I believe I can also reclaim the payments I made to make up the shortfall in years.  I'd worked for 34 years and spent nearly two years signing on to receive my NI credits.  I was trying to get to the magic age of 55 but couldn't stand the indignity of signing on.  Most of the people the other side of the desk weren't even born when I started working and it was frustrating having to explain why I hadn't found a job.  Had to restrain myself from doing this.  

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