Why Do We Still Want To Buy In Spain ???

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03 Aug 2008 12:00 AM by alantracey Star rating. 156 posts Send private message

Hi All

We had been buying a villa in Jumilla until San Jose went into administration.  I am sure most of you have read the saga on other threads on this forum, so I won't bore you all with the details 

Looking through all the threads (as I do almost daily) it seems full of developers going bankrupt, dodgy agents (not all are, but the dodgy ones get more of an airing), incompetent solicitors and an inadequate legal system.  If you do manage to buy a property in Spain, there is the Valencian Land Grab law to contend with (which I have learnt does not apply to just Valencia), getting your License of First occupation, and others who have completed and are still waiting for their Title Deeds months or years later.  There are the problems with sorting out the Community, voting a Presidente, community rules.......... and the list of potential problems and hiccups goes on

That is my head talking, but if we do manage to get our money back, WE STILL WANT TO BUY A PLACE IN SPAIN

I am usually VERY risk averse.  Our money is hard earned, and I am not usually easily parted with it (The fool and his money........) but our hearts are still there!

So, for the sake of my sanity, could you remind me why we (or anyone else) would want to buy in Spain??  

tracey




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03 Aug 2008 3:55 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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1.  The pace of life.  I always get a "chilled-out" feeling, maybe just cos I'm away from work and don't have to commute along the motorway, but I always feel more relaxed.
2.  The markets.  Yes, we have markets in UK but the good Spanish ones have a great range of fresh fruit, vegetables and many items which are a pleasure to hand over your money for.
3.  The food.  It always amazing me the number of people who complain they can't get cheddar cheese, or HP sauce, or the right type of teabag, or Bisto gravy.  All these things are available if you're prepared to look, but why bother?   The range of hams, cheeses, fresh fish and other items always surprises me.  We found a type of local cheese which is very like Caerphilly but creamier in taste last time we were there.  I'm getting to learn the difference between Jamon Serrano and Jamon Iberico.  The fruit and veg taste so much different to the pre-packed type in UK supermarkets, the tomatoes are succulent and tasty and the oranges are wonderful even compared to the Spanish one you get in UK.
4.  The wine.  I have never had a bad Spanish wine.  I've had a couple of mediocre ones but never a bad one, unlike France where I have some marvellous wines but some pretty darn ropey ones, too.  An excellent Valencian white for 90p?  A top class Rioja for £1.40?  All available and even the table wines from the Bodegas are palatable and even excellent when made into Tinto de Verano.
5.  Obviously, the weather.  The places to go when the sun is out, the places to go when it isn't.
6.  The cost of living.  Yes, it's going up but it's still cheaper than UK. 
7.  Visiting the tapas bars and trying out various specialities.  OK, that's enough about food.
8.  Driving into the hills and seeing the marvellous scenery that abounds.  It can get a bit scrubby on the coast but a few miles inland brings about a totally different and rugged beauty. 
9,  The cleanliness of the beaches and the clear, crystal seas.  Even during the winter months the beaches are cleaned rubbish collected.  The sea is beautiful and a day at the beach is a wonderful time out, unlike UK popular resorts which still has last weeks litter, broken bottles and smell of fish and chips and vinegar. 
10.  The friendliness of the people and sense of family unity.  This is probably the best thing about Spain.


Enough to keep you going?



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03 Aug 2008 4:52 PM by alantracey Star rating. 156 posts Send private message

Well Bobaol !

Thanks - you have helped to start restoring my sanity! 

For us, buying in Spain was never about making a quick buck, but about enjoying life, and somewhere to eventually retire to.  My heart is overtaking my head once more and re-iterating what it is we love about Spain in spite of the problems.

Keep the posts coming !

Tracey



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03 Aug 2008 6:22 PM by Happy and relaxed Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Hi
I do like the reply above. I have lived in Spain for 6 years and without any problems.
The reasons for living here as listed are very good however you forgot to mention why people want to leave Uk. Knife crime, child safety , being ripped off all the time ,expense of everything, quality of children and quality of your life, health etc etc

As for the comment on san jose. Everybody knew a long time ago this particular site was a bit dodgy.I am afraid in life is something is very cheap there is usually a reason.
If you do everything by the book and don't cut corners you will have no problems buying in Spain.
I am an agent. I never went to Jumilla as I knew ( like all agents ) there could be problems. There are a number of sites you just do not go to. You are playing with peoples lifes and hard earned money so no risks should be taken.
You should always get a bank gaurantee which builders have to offer. If they don't then there is something funny going on !!!
You should always get a copy of your deeds ( nota simple) at the notaria. If there are no deeds do not sign . Whatever you are told . DO NOT TAKE THE RISK !

I cannot understand anyone who does not use a solicitor, or sign without deeds etc. would you do this in the UK ??

As for Land grab I understand this to be a thing of the past, however there are some strange rules in different areas. If you buy an inland property it must be on a very large plot in some areas 20,000 sq mtres.If this is rustic land in some areas you cannot own it. It will always belong to Spain. In a way you sort of  borrow it and at anytime they could build a road through your land.Again Legal advice, good agent ( do not do it alone) and no problems.

Happy and relaxed



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03 Aug 2008 7:17 PM by Chrissie1 Star rating in UK. 384 posts Send private message

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Bobaol

Thankyou.  Your post below makes good reading and it certainly brought me right back to the reasons why we chose spain.  It is all of those things. Over the past few weeks I have sat and wondered why I still want to be in spain and you have put it back into perspective. I have a feeling I will reading it again during the next few weeks whilst we learn if it is all still possible.  In the meantime we will be joining the rat race on Monday morning.


Thanks Chrissie



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Chrissie   



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03 Aug 2008 8:41 PM by alantracey Star rating. 156 posts Send private message

Hi Babaol

You state that everyone knew a long time ago that this particular site was a bit dodgy - but obviously everyone didnt!  There are approx 1500 of us who have put a deposit on this site, so there were many who didn't know and many agents happy to keep us that way   When we first put our deposit down it was 2005, and we hadn't yet discovered EOS !!  How much we have learnt since!!  

We had a solicitor (who we have since changed) and we insisted on a Bank Guarantee.  Our new solicitor has presented the BG and of course the Banks do not want to know.  (he is working on this)
Although we may have been a little naive, we certainly didn't leave our brains on the plane.  I used to be a Conveyancing Secretary many years ago, and although I appreciate that the system is different in Spain, I refused to be fooled into thinking it was safer unless we did our homework.  

So how does someone do their homework?  We hadn't yet heard of EOS, so we asked our solicitor about the developer  (well established, large developer in the area) and if they had any conflicts of interest.  We asked about BG's (and was told it would cost US 1%! ).  When we got back to the UK we went to Property Shows and asked other developers if they had heard of our developer and also asked solicitors at the show if they had heard of our developer and solicitor (a good opportunity to slate the opposition) .  All came back positive.  We certainly didn't make life easy for our agent, and asked lots of probing questions, but of course, how can they be verified?  Ultimately, we all put trust in our solicitors to look after our interests, rather than the agent/developer etc.

Whilst I appreciate that there are good and bad in all professions, I feel the system could be improved to prevent some of the situations that have arisen all over Spain.  The few bad apples give the good cart a bad name, and whilst this post may seem negative, I am trying to remain optimistic about our possible Spanish future.  

(Perhaps if we get our money back, and can afford to buy again, I will give you a call

Tracey



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03 Aug 2008 8:52 PM by georgia Star rating in Algorfa (As seen on .... 1835 posts Send private message

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hI all,
I want to try and combine a few facts regarding this thread and the "Hall of Shame" thread.
I feel that a few people on here are being persecuted for being in a position where they are due to lose a lot of money and with it the faith in this country's property purchase system.
The simple answer to why people still want to buy in Spain is because it represents so many values that were once appreciated in the UK, family,values and respect for ones fellow man,the freedom for your children to play or explore without the fear of abduction,knife attack or worse.
The now retired generation of people that were raised with manners and decorum that now see the youth of today devoid of any respect or aknowledgement of sacrifices that have been made to create a Great Britain to see it reduced to tatters.
Before you start thinking i am agrumpy old man i'm 39 so maybe the "when i was young"stage has been prematurely forced on me by Sky news constantly making me bow my head daily with news from the motherland.
Firstly the reason we are not supposed to air our grievances and name names is because Justin the site owner can be and will be sued by any offended party if they feel that comments are libelous,his is the owner of the medium in which these opinions are expressed and in essence will be held culpable.
The only way around this is to do a survey of people that have used specific companies and allow them to be marked out of ten for quality of service etc.
It was mentioned on this forum that certain agents knew that Jumilla(san jose) was a danger and didnt take people there,i have also stated this in the past but i do not expect anyone who was taken there by an unscrupolous agent to know ant better,unfortunately at the end of the day people who bought on Jumilla in the boom HAD to trust someone and it was generally someone from their home country that spoke their own language in which they did so,this does not make them stupid,easily led,gullible or any number of adjectives that have been tossed around over the last few months.
Every day of our lives we have to put trust in someone whether it is the bus driver that takes our children to school or on the scale that could put your life savings in jeopardy.
If the credit crunch had not come along and the market had continued on at its heady pace then in my opinion Jumilla would have got finished with or without licences and demand would have pushed the development into completion,no bank guarantees would have been something that people would have looked back in retrospect and thought was quite risky but at least they would have been in their home.
Alas this has not been the case and here we sit in reflection,its easy to say that people should have known but they didn't so i wish all the people the very best in compensation.
Right,onto the recommending solicitors bit,as an agent i recomend every client that i have and buys a property through me uses the lawyer i recommend,there is one reason for this and one reason only,he is bloody good at what he does and straight as the day is long!! no kick backs,no conflict of interest,nothing,if i want to offer a good service that means good legal support for the CLIENT,i TRUST him after years of working together with no blemish on his record,if peolpe want to use other lawyers that fine with me but my duty is to provide the best service and due dilligence.
The double edged sword is the large agent with the lawyer in his pocket so be aware but do not close yourself with the idea that because someone is recomended there has to be a alterior motive.
When talking about legalities, land grab,dodgy laws,lawyers,agents etc i hear people say that would never happen in the UK(DONT KID YOURSELF)but most of all remeber this is NOT the UK(thank heavens) people come to Spain for all the positives that are listed above,this is not some fictional paradise it is a country that is only 30 years out of dicatorship, it is a wonderful place to be but take nothing for granted and when standing in a queue at the town hall endlessly waiting to be seen or heard or chasing one form or another remember why you are here.
If you are suffering at the hands of the current situation surrounding developers just remember what made you want to be here in the first place,what doesnt kill you makes you stronger,when you come out of the other side it will be woth it.
I haven't posted for a while because of being under the weather so i hope that didn't bore or offend anyone.



_______________________
www.taylorlandandpropertygroup.co.uk still here after all these years!



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03 Aug 2008 9:06 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2253 posts Send private message

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Hi Tracey.
Sorry, wasn't me stating the site was dodgy.  Mine was the nice post.  Think you mean happy and relaxed, not that I'm not happy and relaxed but that wasn't my post.
Confused?  Certainly am!



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03 Aug 2008 9:16 PM by alantracey Star rating. 156 posts Send private message

Hi Baboal

Yes, sorry about that





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03 Aug 2008 9:26 PM by alantracey Star rating. 156 posts Send private message

Georgia

Firstly, a good post.
Secondly, the thought behind this thread was to re-iterate all the positives about Spain, DESPITE the negatives we and others have experienced.  We still want to go to Spain - older, certainly wiser, and still very cautious but we keep getting drawn back.  the very fact that so many have bought and lived in Spain without problems gives us hope.  

How dream hasn't changed - just our road to getting there 

Tracey



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03 Aug 2008 9:33 PM by georgia Star rating in Algorfa (As seen on .... 1835 posts Send private message

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Hi Tracey,
I hope you along with many others get the outcome you deserve and continue on with the search for your place in the sun..........
Beleive me ,it is worth it in the end.
Best of luck
Georgia


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www.taylorlandandpropertygroup.co.uk still here after all these years!



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03 Aug 2008 10:03 PM by jules1 Star rating in St Ives, Cambridgesh.... 264 posts Send private message

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Hi Tracey, I sincerely hope that you do get your money back and are still in a position to realise your dream. Keep your dream at the forefront of your thinking and it WILL happen, perhaps differently to how you thought it would, but it WILL happen in one way or another - the law of attraction or cosmic ordering!

Julia

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04 Aug 2008 6:01 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9419 posts Send private message

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Thanks Bobaol.. We love having people appreciating our country. Apart from the ultra-mercantilist environment  that has been around the off-plan  building world during the last years... Spain has lots to offer. 



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Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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04 Aug 2008 12:04 PM by Happy and relaxed Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Hi all
Firstly let me apologise . In my earlier post I said everyone new about SJ by this I meant agents.
I mentioned I am an agent  just so you know but not to promote myself etc.
I actually came on this site as a clients went on it and nearly cancelled their inspection trip it worried them so much.
Remember thousands of people are happy and have had a pleasant experience only a few do not.

SJ could have gone either way and maybe clients would have been laughing all the way to the bank but agents should have stated the risk and the ins and outs. If clients still wanted to buy that is their choice. I did have this situation and told them to buy off someone else. I want to sleep at night !! If you think of the national only having 2 horses and putting 60k on one of them . Would you do it ??
I know of agents bragging how much they made from this site , well I think they should give it all back .
I would also point out that an hour inland gets very very hot in the summer 45deg plus and in the winter very cold.

Back to life in spain.I am a family man 3 kids all went to spanish school and very happy. Tonight my oldest ( just 17) starts playing semi pro football for a local town team ( near where Gorgia lives ) and has 2 other teams chasing him.
When we moved here he had never kicked a ball.He has also done his spanish football coaching course ( and english level one) and teaches football to kids.He has also been offered a trial in the UK but wants to stay in spain. This must tell you something.
My middle son had bad asthmar in th Uk was constantly in hospital. We told a spanish doctor this and her response was he wont have. within a year, no more puffers,no tablets and no problems. He now does football and karate.

all my 3 children are fluent spanish and very happy. Its a great outdoor life with loads of sports, the sea , jet bikes water parks and freedom to wonder the streets at night etc etc.

So to sum it up you and your kids can have a fantastic ,safe healthy life in Spain.
Advise is do not buy off plan unless they have permissions in which case the estate should be half built. New build finished projects are probably the safest bet.

Just a quick note to Tracy I used to live in Earith near St Ives.



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04 Aug 2008 12:38 PM by jules1 Star rating in St Ives, Cambridgesh.... 264 posts Send private message

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What a coincidence Happy and Relaxed, I live in St Ives near Earith!!!!

Jules



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04 Aug 2008 12:43 PM by Happy and relaxed Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Hi
Yes I actually got the names wrong I meant you Jules . LOL!!



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