wealth and income tax

The last year to pay wealth tax should be 2008 for wealth owned during 2007. The Bill to abolish it has passed through parliment but has not yet received Royal Assent.


This message was last edited by JohnKath on 10/26/2008.

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Thanks Roberto.

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You're welcome. 
The invoice is in the post.

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Roberto, I am very comfortable with your invoice being in the Spanish post. Long may it stay there - along with so much else that seems to disappear on its way up the mountain. 

Now, my lawyer is requesting 250 euros for fiscal representation for next year. I know that this is very much in line with other lawyers' fees and have heard of some that charge more. But, is it worth it? Does anyone know if a Gestor would normally charge less? As a non-resident, i suppose I need a Spanish representative ongoing.
This is what my lawyer says is involved......
- Acceptance of and response to all tax office communications in a timely manner so as to ensure I am not penalised.
- Advice on such communications and any other tax matters.
- Tax calculations and submissions (just Deemed Income tax next year - i don't let my place out) together with all documentation.

I have no idea how often the tax office will request responses to communications - I do know that the tax calculation is simple. So, I don't know the volume of work involved.

Independent Gestor or lawyer's gestorial department? is there much difference? Anyone care to express an opinion?


This message was last edited by plexx on 10/28/2008.

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Can't really comment, as I am a resident, but that does seem rather a lot for very little. Hopefully other non-residents will post here for comparisons.

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I've copied this from another thread regarding Suma Payments which shows what I and another non resident pays for fiscal representation.

I pay my Solicitor each year to calculate my Wealth/Renta tax and IBI.  It used to cost 71.34 but this year it was 82.94.  I see that you paid 163,56 (81.78 each as you are joint owners)

Your bill does seem expensive especially as we may only have to pay Income Tax (Renta) as Wealth Tax is due to be abolished WEF 1 Jan 2008.  Don't live in the same area so unable to recommend anyone.

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Thanks Semijubilada. I am wondering if my lawyers are playing on the 'fear factor' - I wonder how often the tax office sends out notices that must be answered within a limited time. I notice that you say your lawyer calculates IBI. I thought this was calculated by the local town hall. Am I incorrect, or is your lawyer merely verifying that calculation?

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I have an abodaga sorting out my tax situation, but I wonder if I paying too much!! 

I'm taking a closer look at the "pennies" as they leave my bank account these days!!  My OH and I have got joint ownership and  our last Wealth Tax bill was in the region of €320 ish.    

When we bought the house we worked out that the outgoings (excluding mortgage) would come to around £1,000 (in sterling because that's the amount that we used to transfer over!), but no chance of keeping within that now

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Plexx - I've been paying a yearly fee for them to deal with my fiscal affairs, in the first year they set up the direct debit for the IBI to be paid annually.  I mistakenly thought they would do the same this year as I changed banks last October, despite telling them the new banking instructions last December my IBI payment has been changed for next year but this year had to be paid manually.

If we don't have to pay Wealth Tax next year then I will be dealing with the 214 form myself as I'm not impressed with the service I've been getting.  I understand you have until end of December to pay Renta so I'm sure I will have enough time to submit the form myself.

I spent a lot of time on the phone and emailing the sols without getting any answers so now I'd rather deal with things myself.

Read this thread   Looking for a fiscal representitive...  Jen & Barrie.  (24 May 2008 1:57 PM), it tells you how to fill in a 214 form, download it and see if you get the same figure as you paid this year.  That's what I will be doing, that way I will know if I can complete the form myself.

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Thanks Semijubilada.
I am sure there is some sort of 'gravy train' mentality with the lawyers here. I don't know if true, but they told me that all sorts of copy documentation (passport, escritura etc ) had to be prepared to send with the 214). I had to chase them to get the 214 ball rolling and then they used the wrong purchase price in their initial calculations. But the real problem is that I think if non-resident you do need a Spanish contact for the tax office. That is why I may not be comfortable doing it myself and am looking for better value.

 

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I think they are stretching the truth, read that thread I highlighted as it explains word for word how to fill in the 214 form.  As I understand it you need your NIE number and your IBI bill which will list the figures you need to calculate what you need to pay.

Only grey area is where you will have to go to pick up your stickers to go on form.

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My Guide to paying your own Non Resident taxes is still available.
Click the link below my signature for more info.................

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Stickers and the envelopes for your tax forms can be obtained from the tax office in person. To find your nearest, at the aeat dot es website,  botom right hand corner, click on Direcciones y telefonos,  Delegaciones from the menu, click on the map and follow the trail to your local tax office.  There are other locations you can get them, I've been told that some town halls with a tax sub office can print them also.  If you don't speak much Spanish or a dialect of it, write down the translation of what you want and practice.  You will need proof of NIE plus your address for the stickers, again easier if it is written down perhaps on the prepared forms you will have with you.  Or, you may be able to get envelopes from the tabac shops and stickers from the aeat website, trusting to the postal system.  Sorry, I can't remember the links to order the sticky labels.

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The Tabac's no longer sell the 214 forms.
You can complete them on the internet, or buy them from your local tax office.
Pagatinas (stickers), only from the tax office too, but can also be ordered online.
Regards,

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So the Tabacs don't sell the envelopes any more, that's why I got confused looks earlier this month.    
I'll come clean, I got most of my information from FibbyUKs tax guide (Thanks for the info) this saved us the 70Euro each our solicitor wanted to charge us.

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We've just received an e-mail from out fiscal rep who did our returns last year informing us of our 2007 returns due end of this year :

Income Tax       149.19€      (we dont rent out our apt)
Wealth Tax        164.92

total                    314.11€

Their activity fees (VAT inc)                174.00
Their fiscal rep fee 2009 (VAT inc)   406.00€

total                                                        580.00€

I think we're getting ripped off here, surely activity fees & rep fees are for the same thing and considering we paid fiscal rep fees in advance last year for this year we're being charged twice??   Does anyone elso get billed like this or clarify what the two payments are, we dont get a logical explanation when we ask them, usually a load of legal gobblydegook!!
It doesnt seem right that the fees are higher than the taxes, Roberto, if your guy isnt already inundated with requests and we're in the right area, any chance of his contact details please?

Jackie

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Hobby, those fees are ludicrous! Since my earlier posting, I have had confirmation that the 250 euros I am being charged is about standard from a lawyer for comprehensive fiscal representation., although  I know it can be had cheaper from some tax advisors, 

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Hi plexx
250€ is quite reasonable up against ours, but there are people out there that will charge less.  From what I understand once you have the first figures for income & wealth tax they are the same each year, so its just a matter of filling out the form in the right place and finding out where to get the stickers from?
I think because we have used this company from the beginning to deal with everything from when we bought our place they have assumed we want them do deal with all of our financial matters and take advantage by charging us high fees.  I admit our spanish isnt good enough to deal with issues like this by ourselves and the company realises that, although we did manage to sort out our IBI for this year by ourselves (with the help of fellow owners on our community who put us in the right direction) again our reps did offer to do it for us which my o/h was going to do - partly through laziness - but when I explained to him how easy it was to do it ourselves for free he agreed to sort it out on his last golf trip!!

Jackie

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Hi Hobby,

Yes, I understand there are tax advisors who will do it for less and I may switch, but not sure yet. As a non-res, I think it is important to have an address to where the tax office may communicate if necessary and someone there who will respond within the timescale on my behalf. This is included in the 250 euros, as would be anything to do with IBI. But, excuse my ignorance - I live on a new dev and municipal taxes have not yet been raised - I thought that the level of IBI was imposed by the town hall. Seems I am wrong from what you say.

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Hi Plexx
Sorry if I mislead you somehow re the IBI, you are right the town hall does issue the bills but for some reason we never received the notification they issued to inform us that the IBI was due for payment (we werent the only ones either, the post doesnt always go into the right boxes at our community so the first we knew about the the payment being due was through other homeowners.) This was our first one since our development was finished two years ago, apparently the developer paid the first one from what I gather and then last years bill had to be paid by ourselves this year (they do it in arrears fo some reason - one payment in July and the other in september I think, we were late with both and paid them in October + interest for late payment - ouch!!.  Hubby had to take his NIE number to the town hall then they gave him the paperwork which he then had to take to a bank which accepted IBI payments (not all do) and he set up a direct debit at the same time so we havent got to worry about that anymore.(Work of warning if it hasnt been given already, they dont accept credit card payments only cash - my husband had to find 1400€ in cash!!)

Jackie

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